306 replies to this topic

[mab01uk]

I am getting far too wound up...........I guess we will have to agree to disagree........I get far too personal when I am wound up.

So I appologise for that .

I do however drive past Longbridge every day and it still upsets me to see it flattened.

I am not just a mini man I am an Austin Rover man,

I currently own:

the 1979 1275 GT and 2 MK1 MG Metro turbo's.

I have owned and restored:

1970 mini with a 1300GT engine and drums all round lol,

1978 MGB GT

1976 Triumph spitfire

1981 850 mini van

1986 mini Mayfair

1986 MG metro turbo

and have owned loads more minis and metros than i can mention.

So you will have to forgive me if a can't bring myself to love BMW.



Surely it make anyone who appreciates cars smile when they see even the ugly cars like princesses and marinas and allegros in mint condition. or is it just me lol

A nice collection of cars you have Redbaron6969uk and have owned, I too have a soft spot for the 'ugly' cars and much as I did not like the Marina and all it represented as wrong with the British Leyland at the time, they are part of our motoring history and we should be grateful someone loves them enough to save a few. I hate seeing Top Gear destroy perfectly good examples just for entertainment....

I sincerely apologise if I wound you up that is never my intention, just to add some balance to the discussion maybe, I have seen a few factories I have worked in raised to the ground so know a little of how you feel about Longbridge. I went on several factory visits to the classic Mini production line there in the 1980's and 90's so was sad to see it now at the Longbridge IMM last year. I just don't agree it was entirely BMW's fault and BL, BAe and Rover were blameless as some seem to think, there were many factors involved.

I don't want anyone to love BMW, just to perhaps accept a new generation (& some oldies) love their MINI's and they should be encouraged to join us as a friendly community and learn about its classic Mini heritage not have their interest in it spoiled because of past mistakes made by company bosses and politicians, and not through any fault of the MINI owners themselves .

Edited by mab01uk, 13 September 2010 - 10:33 PM.

[joe90gt]

"It also promotes the 'BMW are mini friendly',

You are of course jesting arn't you?? - perhaps you should talk to some of the mini specialists who were being threatened by BMW for using the mini name....water under bridge - or leopard changing its spots - I don't think so!
I'm not sure what BMW can do to help the mini scene - I honestly prefer to see a load of minis parked in a muddy field and draughty barns ( Malvern) than go to some shiny expensive corperative event full of BMW's - I can go to the dealer if I want that.
BMW are big business and I like their cars apart from "that one" and the post 2001 diesels (which have some serious issues with turbo's and swirl flaps), and they do business to make money which is fine but it is still a cynical ploy playing on past classic's that they have nothing to do with

No, I'm not jesting! That is exactly what BMW are doing! They know that they made a commercial mistake in the beginning with mini folk which is why they are working hard to promote that they are mini friendly. They understand that by linking MINI in with mini, it will help sales, it is as simple as that.

While you and I dare say a small number of mini folk would prefer to see a load of minis parked in a muddy field and draughty barns, I feel that this is not sustainable and will deminish. My aim is to be able to continue to enjoy my passion which is minis, taking them on runs, going to shows, talking to anyone who will listen to me about them, etc - simple! What is the best way to keep this going? I believe working in partnership with BMW. I see it as not cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I dare say you will see it as selling my soul to the devil. It is up to the mini scene to engage with BMW and get what they want from the relationship. Of course BMW are going to make every penny out of mini that they can - that's good business! Mini scene - get smart and get all you can from BMW!

I know what I thankless task organising a show is and if MINI owners (inevitably a growing breed) are going to take on some of that grim hard slog and keep shows going, that is fine by me. However, as I have said before minis are my passion, not MINIs so some sort of parking arrangement that allows minis and MINIs to be separate, would be much appreciated. I don't mind walking past MINIs at shows, chatting to their owners, no problem at all, but I'm not too keen on having them in my photos!

Sorry tanya - that is what annoys me - BMW are trying to make sales using the heritage of a car they had nothing to do with - thats cynical
mini shows will never diminish because of the passion for it, if it means smaller venues , less flashy stands , rubbish burger vans but no BMW's then that the one for me every time, why do we need BMW's help?, the mini scene was pretty hot before they came along along with the huge number of suppliers and specialists.
I love this thread - I keep thinking I'll give up then someone says something i don't agree with and away we go again.... brilliant

[Tanya]

Let me try and put it another way! BMW have the mini brand and are using the heritage of mini to sell MINIs - that's business! While some in the mini scene will not approve - that will not stop BMW. This works with masses that buy MINI and while I do struggle a little with MINI owners rushing to me in great delight (this has not happen to me at shows, just when I am out and about or chatting to friends of friends) as they too have a MINI(!), it does give me an opportunity to tell them about mini and they love looking at my minis. I am an opportunist and feel that the mini scene has an unique opportunity here to work with a large successful business. I'm not doing this as I feel that BMW share my passion of mini, they don't, their passion is making money and to be honest that doesn't bother me. While they ARE going to gain from us, I want to gain everything I can from them. Club wise, my undertanding is that the Mini Cooper Register has a growing number of MINI owners and they helped organise this year's Beaulieu. The Mini Cooper Register also had a stand at Plant Oxford's Family Day last weekend, so I dare say will have picked up a few more MINI owners.

I believe that we will have a healthier, more vibrant and evolving mini scene by working with BMW and MINI owners. From what I can see, the Mini Cooper Register have seen this opportunity and are working with BMW by inviting Plant Oxford's Director to Beaulieu to present the concours prizes and by attending the Family Day. I think from the working with BMW and welcoming MINI owners perspective, they are the club to watch.

We will have to agree to disagree on the best way forward for mini - keeping it alive with the public and a growing and evolving mini scene and it will be interesting to see how clubs are doing in 10 or 20 years time.

I too love this thread. Is it a record at 19 pages for a mini/MINI thread without it being closed? (I know it has been closed temporarily, but is still going)

[DowntonMini]

All this BMW are using Mini's heritage stuff is making me laugh. If a company buys a successful well know brand then they are going to use it's history and hertiage otherwise whats the point in buying it. It's good business sense When Ford brought Jaguar, Landrover etc they used the various companies past achivments to sell cars what the differnce?? I love old british cars I went to the last day of Mini at longbridge. Yes it is sad to see londbridge now but it's no different to seeing most of the carpet factories in kidderminster empty (some where my family worked) and all the operations shipped abroad. MINI is built in BRITAN so to me it is a BRITISH car just like Jaguar, Landrover and Aston Martin (who are all owen be forigen compaines) I agree clubs should be working with MINI and the dealers to get support maybe then the ticket prices wouldn't be so expensive. Also form talking to my friends MINI customer service is fantastic I had dealings with Rovers customer service with my 1999 MPI and the customer service advisor actually said to me "we don't care" so I'm sorry but you can ******* BMW off all you want but at least thier customers appear to mean something to them

[dave585]

All this BMW are using Mini's heritage stuff is making me laugh. If a company buys a successful well know brand then they are going to use it's history and hertiage otherwise whats the point in buying it. It's good business sense When Ford brought Jaguar, Landrover etc they used the various companies past achivments to sell cars what the differnce?? I love old british cars I went to the last day of Mini at longbridge. Yes it is sad to see londbridge now but it's no different to seeing most of the carpet factories in kidderminster empty (some where my family worked) and all the operations shipped abroad. MINI is built in BRITAN so to me it is a BRITISH car just like Jaguar, Landrover and Aston Martin (who are all owen be forigen compaines) I agree clubs should be working with MINI and the dealers to get support maybe then the ticket prices wouldn't be so expensive. Also form talking to my friends MINI customer service is fantastic I had dealings with Rovers customer service with my 1999 MPI and the customer service advisor actually said to me "we don't care" so I'm sorry but you can ******* BMW off all you want but at least thier customers appear to mean something to them

Rovers customer care is legendary! I took both my 25/45 in for repairs (yes i am a big fan of rover/mg) but they didnt want to know at all. It was a case of weve had your money now p off! this is a factor why many of the british public wouldnt buy from rover at all.
as for using the past history GM are using the history of Vauxhall to push its new warranty when really vauxhall is only a company in name only as their cars are sold around the world as Opel/Holden/saturn etc, but you dont hear their fans bemoaning it.
Its up to mini clubs and shows to use this to there advantage for sponsership etc as costs are running high and with the money can keep the cost of entry down. Ticket prices have gone up and up as the organisers have to make there money back and when this happens people are quick off the mark the moan about it! some people wouldnt go to stanford hall as the ticket prices were high. Even if you dont like the company its up to you use it to your advantage.
MINI as helped with the costs of the IMM last year but didnt force its self on the show because of, they helped with little things ie the stickers etc and had a liitle show with some classics from their collection with only one new on display.
Even if your still not happy with what as happened then that fine but you have to look forward to the future and use it to your advantage when possible, otherwise we are going to lose the next generation coming in to our great family (apart from kids that have grown up with mini owners) to other makes of car ie ford etc and i for one dont want to see that. I want to see young people getting classics and bringing them back to life for many more years to come.

[book]

Of course BMW are going to use the heritage. That's why they bought the name as you say. That doesn't mean we have to suck it up if we don't want to. It's still a free world and I'd favour shows that didn't include binis. I'm also very thankful that I'm in a club that doesn't want binis in it. it takes the sheen off the fun of being in convoy and of photos when the ginger stepchild is in them gurning away. I wanted to take photos of the parked cars at uttoxeter, but I didn't because I wanted just minis. It's not a BMW thing it's the car.

[mab01uk]

All this BMW are using Mini's heritage stuff is making me laugh. If a company buys a successful well know brand then they are going to use it's history and hertiage otherwise whats the point in buying it. It's good business sense When Ford brought Jaguar, Landrover etc they used the various companies past achivments to sell cars what the differnce??

Exactly right, there are many examples in all kinds of industries.......the Chinese owners of MG at Longbridge aren't going to ignore the heritage of MG's when they start marketing them again here in the UK and back in China and the rest of the world. Tata the latest owners of Jaguar and Land Rover are not going to ignore the heritage either, even if and when they start building them in India.

As said this is a great thread, (I bet dave585 didn't realise what he was starting!) very interesting and thought provoking points have been made by both sides of the arguement, hope it continues to stay friendly and we can break all the records for a Mini/MINI dicussion on TMF!!

Edited by mab01uk, 14 September 2010 - 07:55 AM.

[joe90gt]

Customer care was something that no one did well in the 70's and 80's apart from the japanese, I'd heard Alfa was still pretty bad but that wouldn't stop me buying one of their gorgous cars
I don't want to suck up to BMW and if that means muddy fields and draughty barns, small shows put together by dedicated fans, then so be it, its about the car and the enthusiasts.

[DowntonMini]

Customer care was something that no one did well in the 70's and 80's apart from the japanese, I'd heard Alfa was still pretty bad but that wouldn't stop me buying one of their gorgous cars
I don't want to suck up to BMW and if that means muddy fields and draughty barns, small shows put together by dedicated fans, then so be it, its about the car and the enthusiasts.

I spoke to customer services in 2000 no t the 70's or 80's that is not acceptable for a company not to care

[Tanya]

Customer care was something that no one did well in the 70's and 80's apart from the japanese, I'd heard Alfa was still pretty bad but that wouldn't stop me buying one of their gorgous cars
I don't want to suck up to BMW and if that means muddy fields and draughty barns, small shows put together by dedicated fans, then so be it, its about the car and the enthusiasts.

Being an opportuntist, I just don't see it as 'sucking up'. I see it as mini and the mini scene gaining all they can from the relationship.

I also feel that the mini scene will survive for longer and in better shape with a wider group of people, in good venues and with shows with lots to see - a good way to market mini and attract new mini folk. Personally, I enjoy meeting new people and spreading the mini word and fail to see how this can be achieved with a small group of enthusiasts in muddy fields and draughty barns. As I have said before, I feel that you are cutting your nose off despite your face and I expect you see me as selling my soul to the devil. Two different perspectives, which makes life in general and the mini scene interesting.

As you know, we displayed our four minis at Plant Oxford's Family Day last Sunday and the local paper says that Family Day attracted 12,000 visitors. We had several thousand of them looking at our minis and many talking to us - a great way to spread the mini word and get new people interested.

[E.L.M.O]

I dont blame them for using the hertage. It DOES make good business sense. Do I wish they wouldnt? Yeah. But does it bother me that much? no.

I do see both sides but for me, they are two completely different cars. I dont see why everyone cant just get on, but have their own shows? I understand why people buy BMW Minis, they want a little more space than a Classic can offer, perhaps for family etc? They may want to take their kids to a show, which they feel they cant do in a classic mini. thats fine. Just leave the thing in the car park at a classic mini show, because it isnt a classic! they also may feel that the car gives better reliability. Again thats your choice. but it still isnt a classic

Why do BMW minis have to attend Classic car shows? they arent a classic car
Why do Classic Minis have to attend BMW MINI shows?
They are two very different cars. I am not saying there should be any animosity between people. Its just why cant we all do our own thing.

I think the BMW MINI is an ok car. but it doesnt interest me. so I dont want to go to a show and see hundreds of the ruddy things. If I went to a BINI show, I know what to expect, BMW MINIS. If I go to a classic Mini show, I dont expect or want to see cars that have just come off the production line!

But, If I started a campaign to keep BMW MINIs out of CLASSIC Mini shows, I am sure I would be considered and called a trouble maker.

I dont want them at the shows. So dont count on my support.

Edited by E.L.M.O, 14 September 2010 - 01:31 PM.

[Burnard]

Well said neil, and you are right.

Classic shows for the classic minis, namely beaulieu, himley hall, gaydon, standford hall and malvern, goodwood revival
MITP, SMD, L2B i think could be shared events
And im sure there are plenty of MINI shows i do not know of, which can be souly for new mini's

I think we should all get on, but just agree that they are 2 different cars, with some similarities, and just have our own seperate shows.

[dave585]

Well said neil, and you are right.

Classic shows for the classic minis, namely beaulieu, himley hall, gaydon, standford hall and malvern, goodwood revival
MITP, SMD, L2B i think could be shared events
And im sure there are plenty of MINI shows i do not know of, which can be souly for new mini's

I think we should all get on, but just agree that they are 2 different cars, with some similarities, and just have our own seperate shows.

Define what classic is to me please. As far as i know a classic car is classed as anything over 25 years old and in its orginal state. Not with motorbike engines etc etc. Also mini only became classic when the new one was lunched in 2001. It was given this to separate the two has you could still buy them. ford did this with the fiesta when the model was relunched.

[Nial]

etc etc. Also mini only became classic when the new one was lunched in 2001.

Balearics.

The mini's been a classic since it was the first production car with
a transverse engine, since it won the Monte Carlo rally three times and since
it starred in the Italian Job.

Among others.



Nial.

[DowntonMini]

etc etc. Also mini only became classic when the new one was lunched in 2001.

Balearics.

The mini's been a classic since it was the first production car with
a transverse engine, since it won the Monte Carlo rally three times and since
it starred in the Italian Job.

Among others.



Nial.

Hoe could it be a classic car as soon as it was luanched?? Given the arguments used against the MINI becoming a classic. If it was NEW then how could it be a classic?? Revalountionary yes but classic no sorry