306 replies to this topic

[book]

I don't swear at BINI drivers, i don't key their cars and i don't hate BINI drivers (i save that for Audi drivers). I treat them like I treat most cars. I ignore them as i'm not interested in the boring modern cars. The fiat 500 and a fifties-style one i don't know the name of are the only charismatic cars for at least 15 years i think. if i see an e-type or a vitesse (personal choice chaps) i give admiringly glances as i do appreciate other cars.

as for the question of would i buy one of the limited edition ones. well, money willing, of course i would. asking that question proves that some of you on the other side of the discussion really don't get what it is we find abhorrent about the bini and what bmw have done. i drive a 99 ffs so i'd be hypocritical if i said otherwise.

but if they can make road legal modern minis, but retain the classic styling why on earth didn't they do that instead/aswell?

[mab01uk]

but if they can make road legal modern minis, but retain the classic styling why on earth didn't they do that instead/aswell?

We have already seen that this was considered by BMW & Rover with the Minki prototypes earlier in this thread:
Quote:
"1995 arrived, and so did BMW! They were surprised that we had such a strong brand of Mini, but no plans to do anything with it. Plans for a new Mini were required, and a ‘competition’ was set up, for later on in 1995, to decide on the route forward.

It was decided that a part of that event should be a vehicle that represented what current Mini could have become if investment and development had been put into the Mini over many years. This vehicle would then act as a better benchmark than a standard current Mini for judging what the new Mini needed to beat."

More:
http://www.austinmem...e46/page46.html

You can still buy a brand new classic Mini from Wood & Pickett for around £25,000!

Edited by mab01uk, 13 September 2010 - 03:52 PM.

[Redbaron6969uk]

Here's one for you- MINI are to produce a limited production run of classic minis, built with the help of the British hertiage, they would be fully loaded leather, sat nav dab etc, only avalible in 3 colour red, White and blue. They would be covered by the tlc pack and service from the dealer. Price would be around the 11k mark as this was the price of the last ones built back in 2000. How many classic owners would buy one?

more propaganda......the Germans were always good at that.

[Nelson92]

Here's one for you- MINI are to produce a limited production run of classic minis, built with the help of the British hertiage, they would be fully loaded leather, sat nav dab etc, only avalible in 3 colour red, White and blue. They would be covered by the tlc pack and service from the dealer. Price would be around the 11k mark as this was the price of the last ones built back in 2000. How many classic owners would buy one?

more propaganda......the Germans were always good at that.

made in oxford? when did oxford last make minis as that plant was a rover 75 plant wasn't it?
the quality couldn't get any worse so hell i'd buy one anyway. and i'd like to see bmw mod an a-series.

as for family friendly, that plant blocks the freeview signal in greater leys, just saying but i bet alot of parents round here wished it didn't.

[Scallywag630]

Chances are none will be "highly sought after".

I remember people saying that about the ex-works Minis for sale in the back of Motoring News in the 1970s not to mention the 1959 Mini an uncle of mine drove into the scrapyard for crushing in the same decade...........despite my protests as a teenage Mini fan!

The BMW MINI has no heritage of its own, so until it has been in production, basically unchanged, for as long as the classic mini, then it will just be another eurobox.

The money BMW are putting into MINI events is a pure marketing exercise, tax deductable. and nothing to do with uniting MINI/mini owners.

[Tanya]

"It also promotes the 'BMW are mini friendly',

You are of course jesting arn't you?? - perhaps you should talk to some of the mini specialists who were being threatened by BMW for using the mini name....water under bridge - or leopard changing its spots - I don't think so!
I'm not sure what BMW can do to help the mini scene - I honestly prefer to see a load of minis parked in a muddy field and draughty barns ( Malvern) than go to some shiny expensive corperative event full of BMW's - I can go to the dealer if I want that.
BMW are big business and I like their cars apart from "that one" and the post 2001 diesels (which have some serious issues with turbo's and swirl flaps), and they do business to make money which is fine but it is still a cynical ploy playing on past classic's that they have nothing to do with

No, I'm not jesting! That is exactly what BMW are doing! They know that they made a commercial mistake in the beginning with mini folk which is why they are working hard to promote that they are mini friendly. They understand that by linking MINI in with mini, it will help sales, it is as simple as that.

While you and I dare say a small number of mini folk would prefer to see a load of minis parked in a muddy field and draughty barns, I feel that this is not sustainable and will deminish. My aim is to be able to continue to enjoy my passion which is minis, taking them on runs, going to shows, talking to anyone who will listen to me about them, etc - simple! What is the best way to keep this going? I believe working in partnership with BMW. I see it as not cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I dare say you will see it as selling my soul to the devil. It is up to the mini scene to engage with BMW and get what they want from the relationship. Of course BMW are going to make every penny out of mini that they can - that's good business! Mini scene - get smart and get all you can from BMW!

I know what I thankless task organising a show is and if MINI owners (inevitably a growing breed) are going to take on some of that grim hard slog and keep shows going, that is fine by me. However, as I have said before minis are my passion, not MINIs so some sort of parking arrangement that allows minis and MINIs to be separate, would be much appreciated. I don't mind walking past MINIs at shows, chatting to their owners, no problem at all, but I'm not too keen on having them in my photos!

[Kam]

I could never understand these threads, anyway

Is this a mini/MINI united? Looks maybe ten feet in length and safe(ish)



See you in another 18 pages

[Redbaron6969uk]

"It also promotes the 'BMW are mini friendly',

You are of course jesting arn't you?? - perhaps you should talk to some of the mini specialists who were being threatened by BMW for using the mini name....water under bridge - or leopard changing its spots - I don't think so!
I'm not sure what BMW can do to help the mini scene - I honestly prefer to see a load of minis parked in a muddy field and draughty barns ( Malvern) than go to some shiny expensive corperative event full of BMW's - I can go to the dealer if I want that.
BMW are big business and I like their cars apart from "that one" and the post 2001 diesels (which have some serious issues with turbo's and swirl flaps), and they do business to make money which is fine but it is still a cynical ploy playing on past classic's that they have nothing to do with

No, I'm not jesting! That is exactly what BMW are doing! They know that they made a commercial mistake in the beginning with mini folk which is why they are working hard to promote that they are mini friendly. They understand that by linking MINI in with mini, it will help sales, it is as simple as that.

While you and I dare say a small number of mini folk would prefer to see a load of minis parked in a muddy field and draughty barns, I feel that this is not sustainable and will deminish. My aim is to be able to continue to enjoy my passion which is minis, taking them on runs, going to shows, talking to anyone who will listen to me about them, etc - simple! What is the best way to keep this going? I believe working in partnership with BMW. I see it as not cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I dare say you will see it as selling my soul to the devil. It is up to the mini scene to engage with BMW and get what they want from the relationship. Of course BMW are going to make every penny out of mini that they can - that's good business! Mini scene - get smart and get all you can from BMW!

I know what I thankless task organising a show is and if MINI owners (inevitably a growing breed) are going to take on some of that grim hard slog and keep shows going, that is fine by me. However, as I have said before minis are my passion, not MINIs so some sort of parking arrangement that allows minis and MINIs to be separate, would be much appreciated. I don't mind walking past MINIs at shows, chatting to their owners, no problem at all, but I'm not too keen on having them in my photos!

I personally think this is incorrect. We will not know for many years....but I for one have started losing interest in the shows since the MINI's are getting involved. I think the amount of classic owners that leave the scene will increase due to the greater and greater amount of MINI's 'pushing in'.

so this will be another institution that i enjoy, spoiled by the MINI.

[mab01uk]

The BMW MINI has no heritage of its own, so until it has been in production, basically unchanged, for as long as the classic mini, then it will just be another eurobox.

The money BMW are putting into MINI events is a pure marketing exercise, tax deductable. and nothing to do with uniting MINI/mini owners.

Cars don't gain their 'heritage' just because they have been in production basically unchanged for 41 years mainly due to incompetent management failing to generate profits to invest in the product and the workforce......unlike German & Japanese manufacturers. Mini sales peaked in 1972 and declined each year from then on to the end of production, Alec Issigonis knew the Mini needed updating to stay ahead and had the 9X Mini replacement designed and ready for the 1970's but typical of badly run short sighted British companies BL decided to sit back and let others take the lead........while British Leyland got on with designing advanced cars like the Morris Marina using the ancient A & B series engines with Morris Minor 1000 underpinnings!! (and killing the valuble Mini Cooper name).
http://www.aronline....tm?super9xf.htm

BMW is a 'company', companies exist to make money and profits to reinvest in future products and pay the workforce, good companies also invest in marketing tax deductable or not, perhaps some of the many long gone British car companies should have been clever enough to do the same and they would be here today. Anyway I don't remember BL/Rover,etc, doing much to help Mini owners. Also as said before in 1969 while Fiat offered as many cars as the Italian Job film makers wanted, good old BL were not interested in helping. One of the biggest marketing opportunities ever handed to them on a plate and they could not work out its worth................is it any wonder they failed in the end while finally being caught lining their own pockets.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8250051.stm

[Redbaron6969uk]

The BMW MINI has no heritage of its own, so until it has been in production, basically unchanged, for as long as the classic mini, then it will just be another eurobox.

The money BMW are putting into MINI events is a pure marketing exercise, tax deductable. and nothing to do with uniting MINI/mini owners.

Cars don't gain their 'heritage' just because they have been in production basically unchanged for 41 years mainly due to incompetent management failing to generate profits to invest in the product and the workforce......unlike German & Japanese manufacturers. Mini sales peaked in 1972 and declined each year from then on to the end of production, Alec Issigonis knew the Mini needed updating to stay ahead and had the 9X Mini replacement designed and ready for the 1970's but typical of badly run short sighted British companies BL decided to sit back and let others take the lead........while British Leyland got on with designing advanced cars like the Morris Marina using the ancient A & B series engines with Morris Minor 1000 underpinnings!! (and killing the valuble Mini Cooper name).
http://www.aronline....tm?super9xf.htm



BMW is a 'company', companies exist to make money and profits to reinvest in future products and pay the workforce, good companies also invest in marketing tax deductable or not, perhaps some of the many long gone British car companies should have been clever enough to do the same and they would be here today. Anyway I don't remember BL/Rover,etc, doing much to help Mini owners. Also as said before in 1969 while Fiat offered as many cars as the Italian Job film makers wanted, good old BL were not interested in helping. One of the biggest marketing opportunities ever handed to them on a plate and they could not work out its worth................is it any wonder they failed in the end while finally being caught lining their own pockets.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8250051.stm

I am not sure from the way you keep slagging Austin rover off that you even like the mini.....don't know why you bother.........yes the austin made some crap cars but this was in a time when all car manufacturers made cars that rusted and were crap. I get fed up with people who live nowhere near Longbridge and can't possibly understand the emotions involved keep slagging it off. look at some of the shyte citroen, peugeot, and renault turned out...... still french owned still loved by the french......someone from Paris slagging off there beloved marques would not be concidered loyal just because they own a 2CV.

If BMW decide that it no longer suits their plans to build the MINI in the UK.......It will be gone.....I wonder how all the turn coats will feel then?

Edited by Redbaron6969uk, 13 September 2010 - 08:47 PM.

[Kaison]

Just my opinion but it has nothing to do with "sides".

I personally think the MINI a little boring and doesn't really have the spirit or feel of classic mini's - It's what the 1 series BMW should be though!
The MINI is a genuinely decent car and it would suit the BMW badge well, I think they could (SHOULD) have made the platform it's own!

But when I go to shows, I ignore the MINI's because I'm not interested and feel they are welcome but don't have a place if that makes sense.
I just feel they should all be together if people do enjoy them and away from people don't. And the same to MINI shows.

Just my 2 pence

[Tanya]

The BMW MINI has no heritage of its own, so until it has been in production, basically unchanged, for as long as the classic mini, then it will just be another eurobox.

The money BMW are putting into MINI events is a pure marketing exercise, tax deductable. and nothing to do with uniting MINI/mini owners.

Cars don't gain their 'heritage' just because they have been in production basically unchanged for 41 years mainly due to incompetent management failing to generate profits to invest in the product and the workforce......unlike German & Japanese manufacturers. Mini sales peaked in 1972 and declined each year from then on to the end of production, Alec Issigonis knew the Mini needed updating to stay ahead and had the 9X Mini replacement designed and ready for the 1970's but typical of badly run short sighted British companies BL decided to sit back and let others take the lead........while British Leyland got on with designing advanced cars like the Morris Marina using the ancient A & B series engines with Morris Minor 1000 underpinnings!! (and killing the valuble Mini Cooper name).
http://www.aronline....tm?super9xf.htm



BMW is a 'company', companies exist to make money and profits to reinvest in future products and pay the workforce, good companies also invest in marketing tax deductable or not, perhaps some of the many long gone British car companies should have been clever enough to do the same and they would be here today. Anyway I don't remember BL/Rover,etc, doing much to help Mini owners. Also as said before in 1969 while Fiat offered as many cars as the Italian Job film makers wanted, good old BL were not interested in helping. One of the biggest marketing opportunities ever handed to them on a plate and they could not work out its worth................is it any wonder they failed in the end while finally being caught lining their own pockets.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8250051.stm

I am not sure from the way you keep slagging Ausin rover off that you even like the mini.....don't know why you bother.........yes the ausin made some crap cars but this was in a time when all car manufacturers made cars that rusted and were crap. I get fed up with people who live nowhere near Longbridge and can't possibly understand the emotions involved keep slagging it off. look at some of the shyte citroen, peugeot, and renault turned out...... still french owned still loved by the french......someone from Paris slagging off there beloved marques would not be concidered loyal just because they own a 2CV.

If BMW decide that it no longer suits their plans to build the MINI in the UK.......It will be gone.....I wonder how all the turn coats will feel then?

mab01uk is not slagging off Austin Rover, just being factual and non emotional. It is quite clear from his other posts that he likes both minis and MINIs. I do understand the emotions of those who live near Longbridge and the devastation that the plant and wider area has suffered, but does dwelling on this help mini/the mini scene? Sadly (and I do mean that genuinely) that was the past and we are where we are now.

I am adept at just ignoring MINIs, but not their owners, at shows, on runs etc. To be honest I only look at things and talk to people I want to and don't look at and don't talk to people I don't want to. Life is much easier and enjoyable that way!

BMW has clearly gained from mini and is keen to continue, so it is up to the mini scene to make the most of what we can gain from them.

[mab01uk]

I am not sure from the way you keep slagging Ausin rover off that you even like the mini.....don't know why you bother.........yes the ausin made some crap cars but this was in a time when all car manufacturers made cars that rusted and were crap. I get fed up with people who live nowhere near Longbridge and can't possibly understand the emotions involved keep slagging it off. look at some of the shyte citroen, peugeot, and renault turned out...... still french owned still loved by the french......someone from Paris slagging off there beloved marques would not be concidered loyal just because they own a 2CV.

If BMW decide that it no longer suits their plans to build the MINI in the UK.......It will be gone.....I wonder how all the turn coats will feel then?

If i did not like the Mini why would I have owned them continuously since 1974? Why would I have a house running out of space for my Mini mags collections and books? How many people on TMF now will still be loyal to the Mini cause in 30 odd years?

I have worked in the engineering and manufacturing industry all my life, some of it in design & development for the car component supplier chain so I know the workforce were not to blame for much of what went wrong, nearly all my critisism is aimed at management and government incompetence for creating the conditions for it all to go wrong. The BMW MINI factory may well move abroad one day, it will certainly expand to other countries like the USA eventually but 10 years investment in the Oxford, Swindon & Hams Hall sites, when many new owners would already have taken that option (especially to build a cheap low profit 'masses' small car) suggest that is not the plan.

It is others who are 'slagging off' one of Britains best car manufacturing plants...............if you don't believe me go on the MINI Factory Tour for a unusual & eye-opening day out with your Mini Club. I have been 3 times and always see & learn something new.

Edited by mab01uk, 13 September 2010 - 08:56 PM.

[Redbaron6969uk]

I am not sure from the way you keep slagging Ausin rover off that you even like the mini.....don't know why you bother.........yes the ausin made some crap cars but this was in a time when all car manufacturers made cars that rusted and were crap. I get fed up with people who live nowhere near Longbridge and can't possibly understand the emotions involved keep slagging it off. look at some of the shyte citroen, peugeot, and renault turned out...... still french owned still loved by the french......someone from Paris slagging off there beloved marques would not be concidered loyal just because they own a 2CV.

If BMW decide that it no longer suits their plans to build the MINI in the UK.......It will be gone.....I wonder how all the turn coats will feel then?

If i did not like the Mini why would I have owned them continuously since 1974? Why would I have a house running out of space for my Mini mags collections and books? How many people on TMF now will still be loyal to the Mini cause in 30 odd years?

I have worked in the engineering and manufacturing industry all my life, some of it in design & development for the car component supplier chain so I know the workforce were not to blame for much of what went wrong, nearly all my critisism is aimed at management and government incompetence for creating the conditions for it all to go wrong. The BMW MINI factory may well move abroad one day, it will certainly expand to other countries like the USA eventually but 10 years investment in the Oxford, Swindon & Hams Hall sites, when many new owners would already have taken that option (especially to build a cheap low profit 'masses' small car) suggest that is not the plan.

It is others who are 'slagging off' one of Britains best car manufacturing plants...............if you don't believe me go on the MINI Factory Tour for a unusual & eye-opening day out with your Mini Club. I have been 3 times and always see & learn something new.

I am getting far too wound up...........I guess we will have to agree to disagree........I get far too personal when I am wound up.

So I appologise for that .

I do however drive past Longbridge every day and it still upsets me to see it flattened.

I am not just a mini man I am an Austin Rover man,

I currently own:

the 1979 1275 GT and 2 MK1 MG Metro turbo's.

I have owned and restored:

1970 mini with a 1300GT engine and drums all round lol,

1978 MGB GT

1976 Triumph spitfire

1981 850 mini van

1986 mini Mayfair

1986 MG metro turbo

and have owned loads more minis and metros than i can mention.

So you will have to forgive me if a can't bring myself to love BMW.



Surely it make anyone who appreciates cars smile when they see even the ugly cars like princesses and marinas and allegros in mint condition. or is it just me lol

Edited by Redbaron6969uk, 13 September 2010 - 09:24 PM.

[Tanya]

I do understand how you feel as I feel sad when I have to drive past the North and South Works at Cowley everyday. Cowley is lucky enough to be building cars and employing thousands, but I am still sad about what has gone and miss the bridge across the ring road! Obviously, I don't live near Longbridge but did visit the site in the 90s - only interested in the mini lines(!) and feel sad about what has been lost. However, I do take heart from the Austin Federation and Austin Memories as they are doing great work. The Pride of Longbridge is a great event and I wish Cowley celebrated its history more. Maybe we don't as we are still producing cars.

As sad as I feel about it and the fact that mini is no longer produced (yes, I'm still sad after nearly 10 years!) I really want to keep mini alive and feel that best (well, if I am honest, the only way) is to work with BMW and MINI owners. And while minis are my passion, I do have a sort of fondness for old Longbridge/Cowley cars - funny ugly old things!