306 replies to this topic

[Redbaron6969uk]

My Final word on this thread................(maybe lol)

I loved Rover,
I love mini's,
I have a certain amount of envy towards BMW because they have done a good job thus far with MINI but IMO they made it impossible for Rover to continue.
I agree that the MINI may not have been as good if Rover had made it....but it would have been loved.
BMW are cashing in on our heritage.
I do not think that MINI's should be in the same sections as mini's at shows

It remains to be seen but I think BMW will continue to turn MINI into a brand of numerous vehicles of all sizes and they will end up losing their appeal to the people who fell for the mini's and the MINI name will become generic.

Feel free to comment on my post, but I won't be commenting further as I am getting dizzy going round in circles.

[mab01uk]

I loved BMC, (introduced the Mini and 1100 range)
I hated British Leyland, (killed the Mini Cooper, introduced the Morris Marina and many other dull unreliable cars).
I did not love Rover, (produced lots of dull cars based on Hondas and took years before finally realising the value of the Mini Cooper name.....and the iconic Mini which they inherited but neglected to promote for years or often even bother to display in their showrooms. (The average motorist thought it was out of production years before it actually was!)
I respect BMW, for recognising the Mini's value as a neglected motoring icon and stopping Rover putting it out of production in 1997, at last investing millions developing the last MPI update and millions more on a MINI for the 21st century, successfully despite the cynics.
I love Mini's and MINI's.
I too think BMW have done a good job thus far with MINI, but IMO Rover was probably beyond saving by any car company after years of neglect, lack of investment in new models and asset stripping by previous short sighted British owners particularly BAe. With hindsight BMW were too hands off and left too much old Rover managerment in control for too long, had they installed their own management team the day they took over, well before the money haemorrhaging got beyond control things might have been different........
I also agree that the MINI may not have been as good if Rover had made it....but modern cars need to be reliable to find buyers, love alone is not enough.
BMW were clever enough to see our heritage, Rover management didn't even understand the value of what they had under there noses, (the Mini) nor did BL's Lord Stokes!
I of course do think that MINI's should be in the same sections as Mini's at shows. Variety in both people and cars makes life more interesting.

It remains to be seen but I too think BMW will continue to turn MINI into a brand of numerous vehicles but the Countryman will be the biggest (as they have already said) and a new MINI-Minor will be the small city car at the bottom. Don't think they will end up losing their appeal in the near future and the MINI will become a family of small cars to suit many needs.

[Redbaron6969uk]

I loved BMC, (introduced the Mini and 1100 range)
I hated British Leyland, (killed the Mini Cooper, introduced the Morris Marina and many other dull unreliable cars).
I did not love Rover, (produced lots of dull cars based on Hondas and took years before finally realising the value of the Mini Cooper name.....and the iconic Mini which they inherited but neglected to promote for years or often even bother to display in their showrooms. (The average motorist thought it was out of production years before it actually was!)
I respect BMW, for recognising the Mini's value as a neglected motoring icon and stopping Rover putting it out of production in 1997, at last investing millions developing the last MPI update and millions more on a MINI for the 21st century, successfully despite the cynics.
I love Mini's and MINI's.
I too think BMW have done a good job thus far with MINI, but IMO Rover was probably beyond saving by any car company after years of neglect, lack of investment in new models and asset stripping by previous short sighted British owners particularly BAe. With hindsight BMW were too hands off and left too much old Rover managerment in control for too long, had they installed their own management team the day they took over, well before the money haemorrhaging got beyond control things might have been different........
I also agree that the MINI may not have been as good if Rover had made it....but modern cars need to be reliable to find buyers, love alone is not enough.
BMW were clever enough to see our heritage, Rover management didn't even understand the value of what they had under there noses, (the Mini) nor did BL's Lord Stokes!
I of course do think that MINI's should be in the same sections as Mini's at shows. Variety in both people and cars makes life more interesting.

It remains to be seen but I too think BMW will continue to turn MINI into a brand of numerous vehicles but the Countryman will be the biggest (as they have already said) and a new MINI-Minor will be the small city car at the bottom. Don't think they will end up losing their appeal in the near future and the MINI will become a family of small cars to suit many needs.

Resist..............

[DowntonMini]

I wnet to MINI United last year it was fantastic got to drive rond the GP circuit at no extra cost. And the food stands were reasonably priced not like the rip off mercants at other shows.

If shows started splitting clubs with both new and old then they would only have a few clubstands and I really don't think people would be very happy pay £7+ each to look at a couple of clubstands and the same old faces in who's got the shineist underneath of the car' or 'most elaborte display' in concourse I wouldn't.

[dave585]

There were some fanastic cars on display and you could tell some of the work that goes in to the them. The ones that need to be congratulated are the people who keep the cars in such good condition and still drive them. On the other hand there are the ones who go way ott, carpet,covering under gazebos chains around to stop you getting near them and never driven at all!
these are the ones i have no time for at all. I spend more time around you can see are driven and well looked after. To me these people deserve to win the prizes and to be congratulated for all there hard work not the toy boxed ones. Yes they do look after there car but its a real shame they only come out when its sunny and from the back of a trailer.
Also these are the people who tend not to talk to you when you ask them questions on there motor as they are to busy shining up there nuts were any one else will take time out for you while they are prepering their minis when you ask questions like "how long have you had it?" etc etc.
On the other point at the show yesterday (12/09) every club that attended is to be congratulated on putting on fanastic displays of classic/new or mixed. many had dressed up there displays in the theme of the day and you could see alot of hard work had gone into them ie the mini hospital so again well done.
this is the type of show i enjoy relaxed good display and a nice setting the new MITP i think? now if Mini world is sold its up to us to make sure that the new owners to keep up the support of this show and not change any of its format. (many (be the entry price lol)

[book]

Separating would be a bad move. If you don't want to look then don't simple as.

I don't look at them, but it's annoying when you go to a classic mini show to look at classic minis and there's binis there. When me and the other 2 in the convoy went to uttoxeter, we had binis front and side and imo it ruins the look of having the minis park together. as for club stands, fine if they want to let non-minis in, fine it's their stand. we had a vw in ours for a while, but the non-club parking could easily be segregated.

And it's not about being different. I have no problem with wolseleys or elfs, but the MINI is not a mini, it's the usual corporate strategy (it happens in my industry all the time) of buying up the brand and then wringing every last dollar out of it in whatever way possible. people say they're keeping the marque alive.

no they're not. we are. they're doing something completely different. they're doing what the glazers and hicks and gillett do. making money out of someone else's passion. classic mini specialists are still going because of classic mini owners. they don't get a subsidy off bmw, so i don't see how bmw is helping. we have provided the value to the brand which is why it was worth buying in the first place.

[joe90gt]

Separating would be a bad move. If you don't want to look then don't simple as.

I don't look at them, but it's annoying when you go to a classic mini show to look at classic minis and there's binis there. When me and the other 2 in the convoy went to uttoxeter, we had binis front and side and imo it ruins the look of having the minis park together. as for club stands, fine if they want to let non-minis in, fine it's their stand. we had a vw in ours for a while, but the non-club parking could easily be segregated.

And it's not about being different. I have no problem with wolseleys or elfs, but the MINI is not a mini, it's the usual corporate strategy (it happens in my industry all the time) of buying up the brand and then wringing every last dollar out of it in whatever way possible. people say they're keeping the marque alive.

no they're not. we are. they're doing something completely different. they're doing what the glazers and hicks and gillett do. making money out of someone else's passion. classic mini specialists are still going because of classic mini owners. they don't get a subsidy off bmw, so i don't see how bmw is helping. we have provided the value to the brand which is why it was worth buying in the first place.

well said that man - if you must have them at shows then keep it segregated, many people who own mini's just don't want to look at BMW's - I'd be interesting to see how many BMW owners wandered across to the mini section and vice versa after all you see BVMW's every bleeding day but I think its a treat when I see a mini on the road

[Tanya]

Separating would be a bad move. If you don't want to look then don't simple as.

I don't look at them, but it's annoying when you go to a classic mini show to look at classic minis and there's binis there. When me and the other 2 in the convoy went to uttoxeter, we had binis front and side and imo it ruins the look of having the minis park together. as for club stands, fine if they want to let non-minis in, fine it's their stand. we had a vw in ours for a while, but the non-club parking could easily be segregated.

And it's not about being different. I have no problem with wolseleys or elfs, but the MINI is not a mini, it's the usual corporate strategy (it happens in my industry all the time) of buying up the brand and then wringing every last dollar out of it in whatever way possible. people say they're keeping the marque alive.

no they're not. we are. they're doing something completely different. they're doing what the glazers and hicks and gillett do. making money out of someone else's passion. classic mini specialists are still going because of classic mini owners. they don't get a subsidy off bmw, so i don't see how bmw is helping. we have provided the value to the brand which is why it was worth buying in the first place.

I suppose I look at it this way - to see what me, my minis and the mini scene in general can get out of the relationship (or however you wish to describe it!) with BMW. BMW are here to stay, have been building MINIs successfully for 10 years, and while there is money to be made from it, they will continue to do so. So how can minis make the most of it? An example for me was yesterday. We took our four minis along to Plant Oxford's Family Day. So what did BMW gain from this and what did we gain from it? BMW had four good examples of minis for thousands of employees' families to look at and enjoy, a good addition to the general display. It also promotes the 'BMW are mini friendly', which they are keen to push for commercial reasons. For us it was an opportunity to show our minis to thousands of people, talk to many, share and enjoy our passion with others and as Plant Oxford is on our doorstep, a rare opportunity to show our four together. I am well aware that everything BMW does is done for commercial reasons - they are a successful business after all! They are well managed and sadly that cannot be said of many of the Rover years, as much we might have a fondness for Rover. Hence, we have BMW and the mini scene needs to find the best way to make this relationship work for them.

[mab01uk]

Tanya is right the classic clubs & show scene should use the BMW relationship for their maximum advantage both financial and publicity wise. Offer some nice classic Minis for display at local MINI dealers showrooms, many often like them for special displays and PR, build a relationship with them and get them involved in sponsorship of local shows and club events in return for the favours. There are quite a few Mini friendly MINI Dealers out there who are already interested in this kind of thing with MINI Clubs but there are often not enough nice classics available within them. Recently for obvious reasons a lot of Dealers wanted classic Countrymans for the showroom previews of the new version! A great way to meet the modern car buying public, build goodwill and get them interested in Mini's too.
At a corporate level BMW have sponsored 2 or 3 IMM's recently including the 50th at Longbridge where I believe they paid for £20,000 of show display marquees for the organisers BMOC. Other obsolete classic car marques can only dream of such help and Austin-Rover were famous for their disinterest in anything of that nature................supply any Minis for the Italian Job? No chance even with free publicity!

[joe90gt]

"It also promotes the 'BMW are mini friendly',

You are of course jesting arn't you?? - perhaps you should talk to some of the mini specialists who were being threatened by BMW for using the mini name....water under bridge - or leopard changing its spots - I don't think so!
I'm not sure what BMW can do to help the mini scene - I honestly prefer to see a load of minis parked in a muddy field and draughty barns ( Malvern) than go to some shiny expensive corperative event full of BMW's - I can go to the dealer if I want that.
BMW are big business and I like their cars apart from "that one" and the post 2001 diesels (which have some serious issues with turbo's and swirl flaps), and they do business to make money which is fine but it is still a cynical ploy playing on past classic's that they have nothing to do with

[dave585]

Here's one for you- MINI are to produce a limited production run of classic minis, built with the help of the British hertiage, they would be fully loaded leather, sat nav dab etc, only avalible in 3 colour red, White and blue. They would be covered by the tlc pack and service from the dealer. Price would be around the 11k mark as this was the price of the last ones built back in 2000. How many classic owners would buy one?

[the-green-monkey]

Here's one for you- MINI are to produce a limited production run of classic minis, built with the help of the British hertiage, they would be fully loaded leather, sat nav dab etc, only avalible in 3 colour red, White and blue. They would be covered by the tlc pack and service from the dealer. Price would be around the 11k mark as this was the price of the last ones built back in 2000. How many classic owners would buy one?

WIll they have an A-series engine?

[dave585]

Here's one for you- MINI are to produce a limited production run of classic minis, built with the help of the British hertiage, they would be fully loaded leather, sat nav dab etc, only avalible in 3 colour red, White and blue. They would be covered by the tlc pack and service from the dealer. Price would be around the 11k mark as this was the price of the last ones built back in 2000. How many classic owners would buy one?

WIll they have an A-series engine?

Yes but improved to give more power.

[the-green-monkey]

Here's one for you- MINI are to produce a limited production run of classic minis, built with the help of the British hertiage, they would be fully loaded leather, sat nav dab etc, only avalible in 3 colour red, White and blue. They would be covered by the tlc pack and service from the dealer. Price would be around the 11k mark as this was the price of the last ones built back in 2000. How many classic owners would buy one?

WIll they have an A-series engine?

Yes but improved to give more power.

In that case I probably would, because for me, it's really the combination of all things that has me hatin' on the BINI so if it was the same engine and the same shell but made by someone else I'm cool with that. It wont be british but at least it will be a mini.

[DowntonMini]

Here's one for you- MINI are to produce a limited production run of classic minis, built with the help of the British hertiage, they would be fully loaded leather, sat nav dab etc, only avalible in 3 colour red, White and blue. They would be covered by the tlc pack and service from the dealer. Price would be around the 11k mark as this was the price of the last ones built back in 2000. How many classic owners would buy one?

WIll they have an A-series engine?

Don't think the A series would meet current regs to be honest another reason the classic Mini was killed off that and crash protection.

At then end of the day the MINI has been around for 10 years now it's time people stopped complaing about it and accepted that it is now part of the Mini/MINI story and cultare end of story. More and more clubs have both I was speaking to someone at stanford hall who is involved in a big club and they said they used to be against the new MINI but now they welcome them as they like many other clubs have realised that they are another soruce of revenue/members. Yes BMW handled the whole Mini trademark issue poorly but they were protecting their brand name and their investment Rove never bothered they couldn't be bothered about the Mini in then end BMW/MINI have since apolagised. It really is time to get on with enjoyig Mini/MINI's to me it doesn't matter which type you drive were all part of the same family. I wave at every Mini/MINI I see if they don't wave back ( and a get clssics ingorne me too) then I think oh well they don't know what it means. I personally like seeing a MINI drivers recation when I flash or wave at them in my classic when they wave back it makes me feel good and its good for them not to have people swearing at them. I recently took part in the LGT where there were Minis and MINIs all working together with one aim to raise money for CHSW and to bring a smile to the faces of the people of north devon something that we achived no matter what type of mini it was