306 replies to this topic

[Nelson92]

I'd have done a mini using either the same shell OR the same engine to keep fans happy.

Like the Minki 1 & II development of a new Mini concept under Rover and later BMW?
Link:
http://www.austinmem...e46/page46.html

exactly. that thing would have been a pretty good daily driver.

[mininuts]

I'd have done a mini using either the same shell OR the same engine to keep fans happy.

Like the Minki 1 & II development of a new Mini concept under Rover and later BMW?
Link:
http://www.austinmem...e46/page46.html

Such a shame that this never went into production. Maybe if it did we would not have the Mini/BINI divide we have now, at least it looked like a Mini.

Mini/Minki United could have been a reality.

[Marcus_C]

I'd have done a mini using either the same shell OR the same engine to keep fans happy.

Like the Minki 1 & II development of a new Mini concept under Rover and later BMW?
Link:
http://www.austinmem...e46/page46.html

I'd have bought one of those, I like k-series engines. As it is the mini/MINI have nothing in common apart from a bit of bad history 15 years ago and that they have both done enough in the eyes of their owners to attract an enthusiastic following. I quite like the MINI, as a good/reliable small car it makes a lot of sense and it's fun to drive, the mini doesn't make any sense that way, that's why I've got a mini.

Edited by Marcus_C, 09 September 2010 - 08:04 PM.

[Jacko-lah]

Somewhere in the last 11 pages there was mention of the militancy of Longbridge workers.

During my time at Coventry Polytechnic studying Manufacturing Engineering, during a lecture on industrial relations, our lecturer, who happened to be a retired production manager from Longbridge, explained that when there was a part shortage, they used to sack a convenor for some reason, so that all in that area would go on strike, so they didn't have to pay them when the line stopped. Once the parts were in the factory, the convenor would be reinstated and all the workers would go back to work.

Amazing.

[cagy]

Somewhere in the last 11 pages there was mention of the militancy of Longbridge workers.

During my time at Coventry Polytechnic studying Manufacturing Engineering, during a lecture on industrial relations, our lecturer, who happened to be a retired production manager from Longbridge, explained that when there was a part shortage, they used to sack a convenor for some reason, so that all in that area would go on strike, so they didn't have to pay them when the line stopped. Once the parts were in the factory, the convenor would be reinstated and all the workers would go back to work.

Amazing.

Lol what a way to save money lol

[mab01uk]

Somewhere in the last 11 pages there was mention of the militancy of Longbridge workers.

During my time at Coventry Polytechnic studying Manufacturing Engineering, during a lecture on industrial relations, our lecturer, who happened to be a retired production manager from Longbridge, explained that when there was a part shortage, they used to sack a convenor for some reason, so that all in that area would go on strike, so they didn't have to pay them when the line stopped. Once the parts were in the factory, the convenor would be reinstated and all the workers would go back to work.

Amazing.

There were also some interesting stories about the 'old days' working for British Leyland (1969 to 1980) in Miniworld a few months back you may have missed:

Leslie Palmer who in 1969 became BL's first non-clerical, salaried female employee aged 22 taken on as a graduate management trainee to investigate new methods of working.
She gives several examples of finding management not really knowing if cars such as Coopers or Healeys were actually making a loss and relates how she discovered the Mini 850 was being sold cheaper than the 1000cc even though for 2 or 3 years it had cost more to manufacture its engine because the volume point meant having them specifically engineered. Customers who bought the cars expected smaller to be cheaper but it wasn't the case............

I especially like this story!
She later needed the basic totals of cars produced and sold each week to make sales projections, etc. Before computerisation this was worked out by hand on a paper spreadsheet. What was built on plant versus what was out at the dealerships and what was sold proved impossible to find out as there was a discrepancy of at least 20% a month. No one knew exactly where all the cars were or how many there were. She found the guy responsible for the figures only to find this had been the case for 12 years! It seems every Friday night a man went out with a torch and wandered round the Longbridge plant counting cars. It turned out the cars were being moved around to make space for more, the paperwork stuck to windscreens often got blown away and once lost mean't the now unidentified cars stood for months on end effectively lost in the system (or lack of one). She says that before 1969 the volumes of Minis, etc, produced were still small enough to keep control of with the old system but from 1969 until about 1978 the explosion in volume plus labour disputes, supplier disputes and lack of enough car parking, along with the workers holidays coinciding with the August registration suffix sales boom compounded the problems.

She goes on to say the Mini Coopers never made money due to the low volumes with high cost of many non-standard parts fitted and that the price premium made it less desirable as a new car but very popular as a secondhand model. The 1275GT replacement was however highly profitable due to mainly using standard parts but John Cooper would not compromise on this, she insists it was this rather than his £2 per car payment that caused the Coopers to be discontinued by BL. "There were huge arguments as the Cooper was a very popular model internally with staff, but the Cooper wasn't selling enough. The 1275GT made money the Cooper didn't."
http://www.aronline....tm?super9xf.htm
Asked about any dealings with the 9X Mini replacement (See Link above) or Issigonis himself Leslie says, "We saw it from time to time. It never had much support internally. There wasn't money for it, budgets were tight and there wasn't room for it. His was an approach of what he thought the motor industry ought to be, as opposed to what it was. I don't think anybody thought it had legs. There was a bit of support from the emotional sense, but not in a commercial sense. I'd say he was being indulged rather than it was ever a valid project. That sounds dreadful but it's probably true. They put him out to grass, although he was still respected. I didn't meet him directly, I saw him give a lecture or two. The problem he had, or the problem we had with him, was his unwillingness to ever engage with commercialisation. He would only ever do what he wanted to do and he was quite difficult in that sense."

She goes on to describe the discord and discontent with the 'Red Robbo' wildcat strikes, lack of secret workers ballots and abuse of power by both unions and management in the 1970's.

Also the issue of organised stealing from plants is covered. "There was actually a price list of parts for every car that was produced in Longbridge that anybody could buy at a discount. It was eventually traced to a man with a garage better stocked out than our stores. The filching was co-ordinated, it had to be, it had to be done in collaboration with so many people in production control or the stores."

The article ended with descriptions of the sexism rife amongst workers and management at the time, the class driven divisive structures - there were four different levels of dining room/canteens (Directors included free bar) - and details some of the problems with the old, inherited tired and inefficient dealer network.

[mk1leg]

Here's my penny's worth I have been a mini enthusiast for some 33 years and there is nothing that in the BMW Mini come close to in respect of enthusiasts there a few but I was at NMCD at Beaulieu in June and there were hundreds of classics parked up all around the site and there were people gathered in groups chatting about minis and so on, while in one corner of a field were Minis and there were no groups of people chatting so I think that speaks for itself, people just LOVE the Classic mini...........it will be many years before the BMW Mini gains that respest.............But it won't be around in 10 years time.........not in the same guise...........

Edited by mk1leg, 09 September 2010 - 11:41 PM.

[JoneseyBoy]

to be honest i wont be joining either as a BINI owoner will never go threw the problems a mini owner goes threw and thats the point of owning a mini and making it your own. the BINI has ruined a classic like the beatle did and now the fiat 500 its just like the fasion in the 60s with leggings is back but will be gone shortly they are trying to bring back something that finished it life on a hign note and now turning that note bad like michael schumacher should not of came back to f1 as now he has lost his winning reputation.

[joe90gt]

Can't see me joining the group hug, sorry but bottom line is a BMW is not a mini and bears no relevance to it whatsoever

[mab01uk]

Here's my penny's worth I have been a mini enthusiast for some 33 years and there is nothing that in the BMW Mini come close to in respect of enthusiasts there a few but I was at NMCD at Beaulieu in June and there were hundreds of classics parked up all around the site and there were people gathered in groups chatting about minis and so on, while in one corner of a field were Minis and there were no groups of people chatting so I think that speaks for itself, people just LOVE the Classic mini...........it will be many years before the BMW Mini gains that respest.............But it won't be around in 10 years time.........not in the same guise...........

Not really a fair comparism at this point in time, the MINI is 10 years old and the enthusiast following is building steadily year on year as they become affordable at all levels. I went to Beaulieu in my New (2002) MINI and met and chatted to lots of enthusiastic MINI owners in the large area that has now been allocated by the MCR, who as a MINI friendly club, can see that the MINI numbers attending are growing each year. This event is also mainly organised by MINI owners within the MCR. Like some other MINI owners I was also there buying parts for my classic project!

The New MINI is already in Mk2, Clubman and Countryman guise with more to come but whatever models of MINI are current in 10 years time they will also be welcome to join us............the MINI community is thankfully less blinkered than some classic owners but there will no doubt be some MINI enthusiasts in the future who only accept the early Mk1 (R50/R53) as a true new MINI designed by Rover!!

Edited by mab01uk, 10 September 2010 - 12:07 PM.

[skaterava]

It just isn't a Mini. S'too big.

[bobs]

Here's my penny's worth I have been a mini enthusiast for some 33 years and there is nothing that in the BMW Mini come close to in respect of enthusiasts there a few but I was at NMCD at Beaulieu in June and there were hundreds of classics parked up all around the site and there were people gathered in groups chatting about minis and so on, while in one corner of a field were Minis and there were no groups of people chatting so I think that speaks for itself, people just LOVE the Classic mini...........it will be many years before the BMW Mini gains that respest.............But it won't be around in 10 years time.........not in the same guise...........

Not really a fair comparism at this point in time, the MINI is 10 years old and the enthusiast following is building steadily year on year as they become affordable at all levels. I went to Beaulieu in my New (2002) MINI and met and chatted to lots of enthusiastic MINI owners in the large area that has now been allocated by the MCR, who as a MINI friendly club, can see that the MINI numbers attending are growing each year. This event is also mainly organised by MINI owners within the MCR. Like some other MINI owners I was also there buying parts for my classic project!

The New MINI is already in Mk2, Clubman and Countryman guise with more to come but whatever models of MINI are current in 10 years time they will also be welcome to join us............the MINI community is thankfully less blinkered than some classic owners but there will no doubt be some MINI enthusiasts in the future who only accept the early Mk1 (R50/R53) as a true new MINI designed by Rover!!

Spoke to my father last night, he had a mini in the 60's, 1964 to be precise, he said everyone had a mini, all his mates, they were in the press everywhere, he didn't buy it for the name or the rally success, he just fancied a new car so bought the 1071S because nothing was quicker for it's size.
Anyway... There was a budding scene of modifiers and owners etc, he had his for 8 years then fancied a change, he said at about this point everyone else had fallen out of fashion with the coopers/minis and bought something else, faster bigger etc., leaving only the die hard small core fans left... until a new generation took over and continued the same trend...

I wonder if this trend will happen again with the MINI? Personally I think due to the shared name has and will have a cult following for a few more years, but I can't predict it having the same staying power as the mini.

Funnily, a security guard in work told me today he's selling his MINI cooper, as it's too slow and not cool enough anymore! Has it started, hence the brand re-invention?

[The_Mistro]

mab01uk, just out of interest, do you stick up for us on the MINI sites? in the same way you do the MINI owners on here?

to be honest whatever MINI owners say about the MINI, it isnt going to change any of our views on them, so imho its waste of breath! the MINI isnt a Mini, it never has been or ever will be, mainly down to BMWs doing, yeah i respect people for haivng a passion for them, the same way people have a passion for VW's! there are all different reasons for why people have a passion for different types of cars, but i cant see any of the reasons for being passionate about a MINI being the same as a Mini!

[Redbaron6969uk]

mab01uk, just out of interest, do you stick up for us on the MINI sites? in the same way you do the MINI owners on here?

to be honest whatever MINI owners say about the MINI, it isnt going to change any of our views on them, so imho its waste of breath! the MINI isnt a Mini, it never has been or ever will be, mainly down to BMWs doing, yeah i respect people for haivng a passion for them, the same way people have a passion for VW's! there are all different reasons for why people have a passion for different types of cars, but i cant see any of the reasons for being passionate about a MINI being the same as a Mini!

Lol........I was thinking it but didnt like to say it.....must be getting too old for confrontation

[The_Mistro]

mab01uk, just out of interest, do you stick up for us on the MINI sites? in the same way you do the MINI owners on here?

to be honest whatever MINI owners say about the MINI, it isnt going to change any of our views on them, so imho its waste of breath! the MINI isnt a Mini, it never has been or ever will be, mainly down to BMWs doing, yeah i respect people for haivng a passion for them, the same way people have a passion for VW's! there are all different reasons for why people have a passion for different types of cars, but i cant see any of the reasons for being passionate about a MINI being the same as a Mini!

Lol........I was thinking it but didnt like to say it.....must be getting too old for confrontation

i didnt mean it to be confrontational at all lol, it was a genuine question, as i have been made aware of threads on other forums "bashing" Minis and Mini owners! i respect him for doing it, and putting his views and what research he has done into the matter onto the forum!