306 replies to this topic

[the-green-monkey]

yea but the bottom pic's huge!!
obviously the mk 1 escort is a classic as is the mk1 mini over the mk5. things just change i guess

Replaced the bottom pic

[JimCooper]

My personal opinion is that it has nowt to do with how nice the new MINI is.....I love the looks of the new MINI (which were designed mainly at Longbridge many year before BMW took over)

I think the countryman looks rubbish though.

The loathing I have for BMW and hence the MINI is the way in which BMW asset stripped Rover to a point where it was unsalvagable.

And yes I appreciate that the rot started with Thatcher.

And yes the militantancy and workers of the 70's didnt help ( of which most of my family were )

But Britain has never been more militant than France yet France still has a thriving car industry.

SO as I say BMW vertually stole Rover with assistance from the British government and asset stripped it until it was value less.

I was supposed to order my new 60 BMW 320 last month I think they are beautiful cars but have refused and am now awaiting an Insignia, god damn priniples lol

As for Jaguar Landrover etc...... they have been bought and saved in a completely different way so the feeling toward them is different IMO.

IT MAY BE A MINI BUT IT IS ALSO A BMW.....nuf sed

I suppose its business? The intention was to build the car in Longbridge as the lines were installed there. If the Mini was re-deveolped when it should have been, BMW wouldn't have needed to buy it. Don't blame BMW, blame the management & the government - would the French have let this happen to Peugeot / Citroen?

[Redbaron6969uk]

My personal opinion is that it has nowt to do with how nice the new MINI is.....I love the looks of the new MINI (which were designed mainly at Longbridge many year before BMW took over)

I think the countryman looks rubbish though.

The loathing I have for BMW and hence the MINI is the way in which BMW asset stripped Rover to a point where it was unsalvagable.

And yes I appreciate that the rot started with Thatcher.

And yes the militantancy and workers of the 70's didnt help ( of which most of my family were )

But Britain has never been more militant than France yet France still has a thriving car industry.

SO as I say BMW vertually stole Rover with assistance from the British government and asset stripped it until it was value less.

I was supposed to order my new 60 BMW 320 last month I think they are beautiful cars but have refused and am now awaiting an Insignia, god damn priniples lol

As for Jaguar Landrover etc...... they have been bought and saved in a completely different way so the feeling toward them is different IMO.

IT MAY BE A MINI BUT IT IS ALSO A BMW.....nuf sed

I suppose its business? The intention was to build the car in Longbridge as the lines were installed there. If the Mini was re-deveolped when it should have been, BMW wouldn't have needed to buy it. Don't blame BMW, blame the management & the government - would the French have let this happen to Peugeot / Citroen?

Totally agree. Not saying I dont like the car....Not saying BMW started the rot.......The British government and Management should rot for what they did....but principals is principals and the French stick by theirs........How many BMW Citroens, BMW Peugeots and BMW Renaults do you think you would see in France if BMW had profiteered over there I wonder? NOT MANY I suggest.

[lindy119]

I think some British billionaire should take the hit for all Britons out there, and reclaim the Mini brand.

He can build it in England too and create lots of jobs (every part in England, not just assembling them like Lego in Oxfordshire or wherever it is).

Then we can change all the bits we don't like (and no that doesn't just mean that we crush them all) and say truthfully that we have a British reincarnation of the car we love.

Anyone want to volunteer, or shall we just start a collection....

Edited by lindy119, 08 September 2010 - 11:43 PM.

[Burnard]

My personal opinion is that it has nowt to do with how nice the new MINI is.....I love the looks of the new MINI (which were designed mainly at Longbridge many year before BMW took over)

I think the countryman looks rubbish though.

The loathing I have for BMW and hence the MINI is the way in which BMW asset stripped Rover to a point where it was unsalvagable.

And yes I appreciate that the rot started with Thatcher.

And yes the militantancy and workers of the 70's didnt help ( of which most of my family were )

But Britain has never been more militant than France yet France still has a thriving car industry.

SO as I say BMW vertually stole Rover with assistance from the British government and asset stripped it until it was value less.

I was supposed to order my new 60 BMW 320 last month I think they are beautiful cars but have refused and am now awaiting an Insignia, god damn priniples lol

As for Jaguar Landrover etc...... they have been bought and saved in a completely different way so the feeling toward them is different IMO.

IT MAY BE A MINI BUT IT IS ALSO A BMW.....nuf sed

The difference with jaguar and landrover and the likes, is that other companies saved them from BMW, who would have undoubtedly done the same with them as they have done with the mini, the new companies also havent sued anyone useing the name

the thing with the fiat 500, beetle, etc is that they are still being made by the same company that they were originally so theres no hard feelings to the company (putting particular dealships asside here, ******* VW reading... )

Its just the principle of what bmw has done with the brand name which has brought everyones opinion them down, id rather walk round with dog ******* on my shoe than work for them, because of the way they treat people.

[cagy]

Like most have already said, Fiat and VW etc have just revamped one of their OWN designs to compete in a modern market, like Citröen have just done with the DS. Where as BMW sucked Rover dry taking what they wanted and just leaving what they didn't want, they took the 50 years of heritage and the name and decided that by putting the name on another car and using the mini's heritage they would instantly have a best seller that everyone would love and buy and that would most likely cast a shadow over the mini which frankly imho BMW don't give a monkey's about.

I do admit that there are owners on both sides which like the other, there is nothing wrong with that but at the end of the day the actions of BMW have left a sour taste in a lot of mini fans mouths which is why they aren't ready (if they ever will be) to embrace the BINI. The mini wasn't made to make money it was made to replace the horrible little cars on the road and to help wth the fuel crisis, the BINI was made to make loads of money for BMW using a different car's name and heritage.

The name is the only thing that both cars share.

[Jacko-lah]

The mini wasn't made to make money it was made to replace the horrible little cars on the road and to help wth the fuel crisis,

I have to disagree. It was of course designed to make money. because they were loosing sales because of the fuel crisis. Leanard Lord was a reasonable business man in my understanding.

[cagy]

Yes like most things it would be there to make money but Alec wasn't told from the off to make a car that'll sell like hot cakes, his primary objectives were to make a car that had a good fuel economy and something to replace the 500 and other little cars of the era that Leanord Lord didn't like.

[dave585]

Like most have already said, Fiat and VW etc have just revamped one of their OWN designs to compete in a modern market, like Citröen have just done with the DS. Where as BMW sucked Rover dry taking what they wanted and just leaving what they didn't want, they took the 50 years of heritage and the name and decided that by putting the name on another car and using the mini's heritage they would instantly have a best seller that everyone would love and buy and that would most likely cast a shadow over the mini which frankly imho BMW don't give a monkey's about.

I do admit that there are owners on both sides which like the other, there is nothing wrong with that but at the end of the day the actions of BMW have left a sour taste in a lot of mini fans mouths which is why they aren't ready (if they ever will be) to embrace the BINI. The mini wasn't made to make money it was made to replace the horrible little cars on the road and to help wth the fuel crisis, the BINI was made to make loads of money for BMW using a different car's name and heritage.

The name is the only thing that both cars share.

The Rover group was losing BMW millions every day as the public turned there backs on them. They invested heavy in there models in fact the best 75 you can get is when it was built under BMW. They invested in the mini giving it another 6 years of life, But again sales were dropping like a stone as more went to other makes of small car. when BMW sold rover in 2000 to John Towers and co they only sold them Rover, now i have heard correct me if im wrong that they didnt want mini/land rover,mini etc. On signing the deal BMW gave Rover £400 billion to help them invest in the factory in new models etc but that seems to have gone in to John Tower and companies pockets and not in to the Company.
So were did that money go?

[mab01uk]

What would the New MINI Have Been Like under Rover?....

If still under BMW Group ownership ........pretty much like it is now as Rover did most of the engineering and development at Gaydon anyway, although without the BMW reliability requirements it would almost certainly have used the Rover K Series engine, instead of just the Rover Midland gearbox mated to the robust Chrysler Tritec engine.

Without BMW investment and ownership..........the classic Mini would have ended around 1997 due to tightening emmisions amd safety legislation with no MPI Mini upgrade to extend it to 2000. No Mini replacement could have been afforded by Rover on their own (small cars = low profit margins)..........if Rover had had the necessary cash investment to go it alone, then the Spritual Rover design prototypes suggest we would have got a Mercedes A-Class style of small car with none of the fun sporting drive or Cooper heritage of the classic Mini carried over.

As Mini enthusists, we were of course lucky to have the classic Mini in production for so long from 1959-2000, mainly due to the typically British lack of investment in the long term future of the brand and the difficulty of successfully replacing something so iconic in motoring history.
However sales figures and profits are important for any company, NO car company is in business for reasons of charity or nostaglia.
The Mini sales figures peaked at 318,000 in 1971 declined through the later 1970's, down to 150,000 in 1980 just before the Metro was introduced, then a large drop to 70,000 for 1981 after the Metro. From this point on sales continued downward each year with a small increase around 1990/91 to 46,000 due to the re-introduction of the Rover Cooper.
When BMW took over from BAe (British run BAe were actually the ones who asset stripped Rover) in 1994 annual Mini sales were down to 20,000 and Rover were having difficulty with some component suppliers due to the low production volumes, after the end of the A series engined Metro range. AP who built the Automatic transmissions were threatening to stop supplies as such low numbers were becoming uneconomic in modern car industry terms.
Despite the BMW MPI upgrades and increased marketing efforts, sales continued to decline to around 10-12,000 a year until end of production in 2000............although the world car buying public still loved the Mini and its image they were no longer buying it in sufficient numbers.
Production of the New MINI (R50) started at 100,000 per year from 2001, (the full capacity of the Oxford factory paint shop), with further factory investment this had doubled to 200,000 per year by 2005.
Production capacity today is approx 300,000 per year, but even these figures are too small for a car in modern small car production to be economic to build, this is the reason the MINI is now being expanded into a range of small cars for different purposes at both the top and bottom of the small car market.

[dave585]

On another note many have said on here that they would like to see no new minis at shows as they are a german car, well does this also go for the moke which you can buy either in kit form or complete.
These are now built in China by another company that brought the desgins for it as well as the name moke. Because there not British any more would be interesting to see if people turned up in these if they are welcomed at shows etc. If they are that would be a massive own goal and a bit of double stanards!

[Redbaron6969uk]

round and round and round we go...................The car is good, reliable bla bla bla.............I agree......but will it ever be loved by proper mini / British Leyland lovers ???????? Nooooooooo.

There are lots and lots of people to blame for the downfall of rover and the real mini. No one I know who worked for Rover has anything bad to say about Honda who started to turn around Rover. Infact the employees aways talked in great fondness of Honda.

BMW made it very difficult for Honda to continue with Rover so effectivly stopped Honda taking the company forward.

BMW never intended to turn Rover round.....they intended to rape and pilage it......they took the parts they wanted and let it die.

As for John Towers I knew him when he ran Concentric I had numerous meetings with him and his cronies....he was always a money grabber and was never the right person for Rover.

BMW did not want Rover to succeed once it was sold.....it would not have been good business.

The BMW1 series was developed at rover as the replacement for the rover 200 and loads more examples if you want them.

Had the MINI been built without it being at the expence of our Heritage I am sure it would have been embraced. But it was a deliberate ploy by BMW to gain the good parts and close the remainer. IT WORKED so dont believe their propaganda.

If you like the BINI and want to own one I dont blame you they are lovely cars. But dont kid urselves that it is love for the mini and that BMW didnt sell us down the river becuz they did.

[cagy]

RedBaron i think you've summed that up quite well. It seems from most BINI owner replies that they don't realise what BMW have actually done and that we should infact embrace the "fake" heritage of the BINI, they are 2 completely different cars that unfortunately share the same name!!

If the BINI was called something different i wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.


If car companies aren't there to make nostalgia how come some companies only create small numbers of cars surely this is to create nostalgia etc???

[jake cooper]

MINI is a brand for BMW it's all about cashing in.

MINI Scooter

[the.stroker]

Guys can we please stay on topic , i havnt got the time at the moment but will have to remove off topic banter ref coke cans,tesco and a pocket full of nuts/split pins at some point later , if the topic gets SPAM'd again it will be closed