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Thinking Of Tuning A 998 Engine


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#16 cap'n crunch

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:14 PM

Well to answer the original question, yes i don't see why you can't make a 998 as fast as a Metro GTI or Saxo VTR, a quick specification check shows this;

Metro GTI
1.4 16v
Bhp - 95
Torque - 90
Weight - 885Kg
0-60 - 9.8
Power to Weight - 109 Bhp/Ton


Saxo VTR
1.6 8v
Bhp - 100
Torque - 100
Weight - 920Kg
0- 60 - 9.1
Power to Weight - 110 Bhp/Ton

Those figures are a rough average across a few different sources


Lets say a mini weighs about 700kg and you tune it to 75bhp that gives a power to weight of 108bhp/ton... i think, or something close to that.

Obviously that is not the be all and end all, there is gearing, final drive, wind resistance, torque etc.

But there is nothing stopping you tuning a 998 to about 100bhp n/a, but it depends on what you are using it for, drivability, lumpiness, rev limit, reliabillity.

Or you could go forced induction and make 100+ bhp and keep drivability, relaibility? depends on the boost and Compression Ratio, or maybe go for a 7 or 8 port head? or 16v?

So might point of view is yes tune your 998 it is not a waste of time or money.

Edited by cap'n crunch, 28 June 2010 - 12:16 PM.


#17 mattwho?

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:34 PM

ive had a vtr and to be onest ther nippy as hell (and it was an old one) my old 94 cooper could keep up with it

so its not about what ther engine is its how you drive it!!!
its not about off the lights as thats just GHAY!!
think of it this way when your haveing fun with a mate and your bumper to bumper and you hit a roundabout and he has to brake like buggery you dont as you handle batter and can put the power down better

stick it on 10's lower it and stifen to the 10 degree and i bet you any money you will have more fun then them and lose em

put an mg 1275 in it if you can get it cheap its a days work and will do well
my 1275 out of a 88 metro can take on my misses bmw 318 easy and its standerd



blaaaaa blaaaa cannot think of anymore now lol






much love

#18 1293sleeper

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 01:00 PM

i say tune the 998 and aim for 70bhp and put the mini on a crash diet by losing everything thats not essential like rear seats, carpets, girlfriend and then swap other bits for light weight versions ie beam axle and alloy radious arms with coil overs alloy hubs and carbon bonnet, boot and doors. remember getting a quick mini isn't all about big bhp

#19 james962

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 01:13 PM

put the mini on a crash diet by losing everything thats not essential like rear seats, carpets, girlfriend and then swap other bits for light weight versions


;)

to be honest, which ever route you choose, you are always going to have the 'keep the 998' and the 'ditch that slowmobile and swap it for a 1275' brigades.

A light mini with 90+bhp will be very nippy and alot of fun :o

#20 liirge

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 01:13 PM

don't forget if your after rapid acceleration than never overlook the Final Drive, a Final drive such as 3.6 will give you nice acceleration but lower top speed, and a FD like a 2.9 will give slower acceleration and higher top speed in each gear!

#21 AndyMiniMad.

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:16 PM

I have a 1275 mg metro engine in my mini and have lightly tuned it (head skimmed, ports opened and polished, lcb, rebuilt gearbox made for acceleration not top speed, roller rockers, double valve springs, 10.75-1 comp ratio, lightened flywheel, new pistons and rings) Any way you get the picture, Its now pushing out around 96 bhp. The car weighs 648 kg, But, and heres the crux of the matter, Its not a modern 16 valve car. Why compare to, or try to out power the modern cars, Mines fine and 0-60 is in around 8.5 - 9 seconds. Pleanty for a road mini. If you want to compete with the modern stuff then your gonna need deep pockets if you intend to stick with the A series.
This is only my oppinion of course and im sure a lot of people will not agree.

Edited by AndyMiniMad., 28 June 2010 - 02:16 PM.


#22 Owen

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:27 PM

Like Liirge says above, one of the biggest factors will be choosing the right Final Drive.


My current engine is a "horsed together" 998 with a 1098 head, 1.5:1 rockers lightened flywheel and a 3.6:1 diff and it goes like the clappers! (probably not as quick as the metro GTi but certainly a hoot to drive. Also, it's the only engine i've had that i'm not bored of yet).

#23 1977 Loud_Mini

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:39 PM

Regarding turbos etc, i would rather keep the engine normally aspirated but saying that i may consider going down the other route, depends how quick it is when i have done some modifications.

I'm not too sure what my final drive is at the moment but it will probably stay the same as i want some top speed. It does about 35mph in first, 60mph in 2nd and so on so seems fairly well suited to what i have in mind.

I know that the MPI metros are quicker 0-60 time wise than the vtr as the vtr is only 8v where the metro is 16v (as my brother has a metro and my mate has a vtr but he's yet to get it on the road). I would just like to give them a run for there money, i know its only a 998 at the end of the day so isn't going to thrash them like say a 1380cc mini would.

AndyMiniMad. - if your mini does 0-60 in 8.5 to 9 seconds then that would have a VTR and just about have the metro on accleration.

#24 AndyMiniMad.

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:51 PM

Regarding turbos etc, i would rather keep the engine normally aspirated but saying that i may consider going down the other route, depends how quick it is when i have done some modifications.

I'm not too sure what my final drive is at the moment but it will probably stay the same as i want some top speed. It does about 35mph in first, 60mph in 2nd and so on so seems fairly well suited to what i have in mind.

I know that the MPI metros are quicker 0-60 time wise than the vtr as the vtr is only 8v where the metro is 16v (as my brother has a metro and my mate has a vtr but he's yet to get it on the road). I would just like to give them a run for there money, i know its only a 998 at the end of the day so isn't going to thrash them like say a 1380cc mini would.

AndyMiniMad. - if your mini does 0-60 in 8.5 to 9 seconds then that would have a VTR and just about have the metro on accleration.

As i said the gearbox has been messed with so im not getting much top speed. 85mph at 6000 revs. However it does get there quite smartly. I just like the torque and quick pick up of my set up. 45 - 70 is what i was looking for in this build as the roads up here in the north of scotland are quite twisty. I come up behind traffic doing 45/50 mph drop a cog and whoooosh im gone.

#25 mpihornet

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:55 PM

Its all about setting your limits and boundaries.

you can get what you want, but your reliability will suffer and drivability will suffer too. even if you get 100 hp out of it, the gearbox will need replacing. Its a never ending viscious cycle of parts.

I had a 998 with 1.25 inch su on it, and it was wheeeezy. The 1.5 su helped. but the MPI 1275 (running 10's because i dont ahve any other wheels) is perfect for me. Im not trying to compete with hot hatches though, just get off my driveway onto hte road.

You could get the bmw k head, or the kam head, or a turbo, or a supercharger, but you'd be better off with 2 more crank journals. You could get the dog gearbox, but you'e be better off with another gear. if you want to go that fast (and be that safe with crumple zones) get a gta or a gtx or whatever 3 letter g containing name post-fix. if you want a cool car that you will love (in my case, since childhood) you may want to stick with the mini.

Don't get me wrong, I love my mini, but lets face it, the a-series engine and bmc box are 60 and 50 year-old technology and the world has moved on. to get that kind of power RELIABLY, you need those kinds of technologies, you know, 4 vavles per cylinder, 4 port intakes, 4 port tuned exhausts, double overhead cam shafts, and 5 main bearings,as well as those kinds of materials, you know, titanium nitride coated crank journals, aluminum heads, sodium filled valves. These are no-longer special race parts, this is the kind of stuff you are getting in 7 seater minivans for goodness sakes! If this were not the case, there would be no mini's with red tops, v-tech's or k series engines in them, we would still be fast with a 998 and 2 carbs, but the world has moved on.

998, its a great engine, 1275, its a great engine. Shame we didnt get the original k-series single aluminum casting in the early 70's because the muppets at BL couldn't see good engineering if they got run over by it and couldn't organize a pissup in a brewery, but we didnt. With the best will in the world, you will struggle to compete with modern powerplants (and to be fair, im saying UN TUNED modern power plants, they can get even sillier in the racers workshop) in light, cheap, safe modern boxes, in the entire operating and speed range. For sure, Im about to get lambasted, because some of you have fantastic mini's but thats the thing. The mini's breathing is SOOO poor that its EASY to get more out of it. remember it was supposed to be a 900 but they took 50 cc out of it because it scared the crap out of them in 59 on the test track. There was lots of room for optimization, but with modern engines, most of that is done, and usually a ram pipe or back box is as much tuning as you are going to get without switching ecu's or getting it chipped.

(holds ears and waits for the firestorm)

enjoy your cars!



















Oh yeah, and my cars faster than yours neener neener neener!

#26 AndyMiniMad.

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:15 PM

Oh yeah, and my cars faster than yours neener neener neener!

No it isnt!!!! And my dads biger than yours!!! LOL. I love this grown up stuff!

By the way mpihornet a very good and well informed post. Young boys and the need for big wheels and dustbin sized exhausts. Going boom boom boom up the road because the sound system is more powerfull than the engine!!

Bloody hell ive gotten old! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

#27 leoe

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 05:34 PM

I wanted to do the whole fast 998 route aswell but ive decided to save for a 1275 as financially it makes more sense, best of luck either way and remember you've got a mini. 10 times more fun then any metro or saxo

#28 1977 Loud_Mini

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 09:04 PM

I wanted to do the whole fast 998 route aswell but ive decided to save for a 1275 as financially it makes more sense, best of luck either way and remember you've got a mini. 10 times more fun then any metro or saxo


Thanks, yeah too right much more fun :cry:

#29 1293sleeper

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 09:46 PM

Its true about the fun factor I sold a impreza as its more fun doing 40mph in a mini than it was 120mph I'm a impreza. If they take the *yellow human water* saying its slow take them out in it on some nice country roads you'll soon see them coming around :cry:

#30 mpihornet

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 10:21 AM

Oh yeah, and my cars faster than yours neener neener neener!

No it isnt!!!! And my dads biger than yours!!! LOL. I love this grown up stuff!

By the way mpihornet a very good and well informed post. Young boys and the need for big wheels and dustbin sized exhausts. Going boom boom boom up the road because the sound system is more powerfull than the engine!!

Bloody hell ive gotten old! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!


Yeah, and i've actually started to think elvis is cool (not really), and that modern music isn't nearly as tuneful as the clash and the damned (which it isn't).

And a note about final drive. Tens on the stock mpi setup do very very nicely. MAy i also add, that another 2 or 3 gears would help. Ah modern technology!

Turbos: a great way to make normaly aspirated poor intake and valve design work properly. Three great turdblow candidates are vw (those valves are like thimbles in a bucket) old subarus (essentially a vw with siamese intake) and minis. turbos make them go like they should if they were 16 valves by increasing the pressure and flow rate and overcoming the restrictions that 16 valves and clever intakes overcome. But then we are back to 3 main bearings. even the sube had 5!

I have built a few turbo cars, usually on engines with at least 5 mains (4 cylinders of course) and I love the mad rush of torque, its like riding a well behaved non smelly (depending on your blower seals) 2 stroke, there is no substitute, its guarunteed a grin!



And finaly, your probably right, my car isn't faster. But i bet i can carry more crap in it! (unless you got a van or traveler)




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