356 replies to this topic

[mini-geek]

erm simple don't tell them............ seriously this is getting blown well out of proportion from what i can find there is very little in way of guild lines around from vosa etc. to be able to enforce any of it.

also no kit car has ever be structurally tested, so how can they start checking body shells? how can they say either way if a modification is or is not strong other than requring seam welding.

finnaly Q plate if you can prove it's original identity then it will keep its reg just the same as a kit car

[mike.]

So when this planned world doom supposed to be happening?

27 years ago

So why have people got weber boxes fitted and not have an MOT, or any of the common engine conversions and such?

If a rule can't be enforced or set out properly it may aswell not exist, never mind be obeyed by people.

[Bungle]

because the DVLA and Vosa haven't been hot looking for offenders

they have now started to catch up with the landrover lot and pulled a lot of cars at a meet in Wales who knows where they will pop up next

maybe outside of a mini show

[Bungle]

finnaly Q plate if you can prove it's original identity then it will keep its reg just the same as a kit car

but if you have modified the monococque or failed the 8 points system you have lost the original identity

[Shifty]

because the DVLA and Vosa haven't been hot looking for offenders

they have now started to catch up with the landrover lot and pulled a lot of cars at a meet in Wales who knows where they will pop up next

maybe outside of a mini show

Yup, they started with the kit car boys, then they hit the land rover chaps, it could be our turn next!!

[adam_93rio]

because the DVLA and Vosa haven't been hot looking for offenders

they have now started to catch up with the landrover lot and pulled a lot of cars at a meet in Wales who knows where they will pop up next

maybe outside of a mini show

Yup, they started with the kit car boys, then they hit the land rover chaps, it could be our turn next!!

do we legally have to let them have a look,

ill just show up with an mot and say its fit for road use, surley this would be enough?

[Ethel]

It is true an IVA does not test the structure of the car (they can hardly pile it in to a concrete block 'n give you the wreckage back with a smile and tell you it passed), that does make forcing you to have one because you've altered the structure a bit of a puzzler

[POWER5LAVE]

sorry to sound dumb but does that mean all of us who have ''trimmed'' arches for wider wheels are screwed aswell.

[POWER5LAVE]

*sorry double post*

Edited by POWER5LAVE, 19 February 2010 - 09:39 PM.

[Bungle]

sorry to sound dumb but does that mean all of us who have ''trimmed'' arches for wider wheels are screwed aswell.

you haven't read the links i posted have you

Q) Would the modification of wings to allow clearance for larger wheels fall foul of the regulations?

We presume not as the common fitment of sunroofs does not create issues as this is a non stressed item of the monococque, the same as wings?"

A) When considering a monocoque structure, it is necessary to consider what constitutes cosmetic panels that do not significantly add to the structural strength and which panels provide structural integrity. In general front wings modified in this way would not constitute a modification to the monocoque structure.

[james962]

yes i posted the ACE site in the links section

this topic was started as i had a reply to a email i sent ACE about mods often carried on on minis, namely the cutting of bulkhead for webber and turbo installs

Without wanting to get flamed for not reading much into this a such....have you emailed ACE regarding fibreglass/carbon flip/removable fronts?

Thank you

[BoboGib]

I have, and this is the reply. Doesn't really shed any light on the subject. I for one am budgeting for putting a metal front back on my car unless it gets cleared up before hand.

Hi Neil, I've been watching the thread on the Mini forum and it appears
there is a lot of misunderstanding of the regs , whether they are new or
not and whether they apply or not. I have already provided Bungle with info
which he posted up early in the thread but most don't seem to be reading it
?

As to what is a monococque, we asked that of DVLA /VOSa and you have seen
their reply. We have not been able to be model specific yet as it has taken
nearly 6 months to get the general clarification that we have and there
are many many other parts to be clarified in general terms before we can
turn to specifics regretably.

VOSAS view is that it is what the MANUFACTURER would regard as the
monococque and for general purposes that obviously anything which is
regarded as stress / load bearing.

The big misunderstanding is that any of this is new, it's not , as has
been repeatedly said the regs IN THIS FORM have been in place for 27
years, the fact that some may not have been aware doesn't change their
existence )

ANY car that is modified outside of DVLAs guidelines ( 8 points system )
WILL lose it's identity if found out. To be put back on the road it must
undergo VOSAs BIVA which is a test to MODERN standards. It matters not one
jot what it was under its old identity, once outside the 8 points system it
is no longer that vehicle.

It WILL receive a Q plate when it passes as it has a modified shell, that
is a MANDATORY ruling by DVLA. If it was scratch build using a NEW shell
,with no previous identity it could receive an age related under DVLAs
rulings.

I repeat CURRENTLY there is no witchhunt but cars ARE falling foul and
losing registrations we speak to at least 1 guy a month who has and these
are just those who find ACE.

Our article was to clarify EXISTING guidelines so they were less open to
interpretation by those who do not actually enforce them.

In view of the FACTS given in our article , which contains OFFICIAL Press
releases frpom VOSA /DVLA ...NOT what the MOT inspector or guy down the pub
says those who are currently building woudl be wise to decide whether
they want to face BIVA or not and existing vehicles have the opportunity
to correct any 'issues' before they are pointed out to them.


We are not here to tell anyone how to build their cars ,only to do it from
a truly informed point of view.

We are here to monitor ever increasing legislation and to try to ensure
car enthiusaists have a future , pretending it's not happening would be
nice but it's not an option.

best regards
Kev Rooney (ACE Admin team).

[Bungle]

yes i posted the ACE site in the links section

this topic was started as i had a reply to a email i sent ACE about mods often carried on on minis, namely the cutting of bulkhead for webber and turbo installs

Without wanting to get flamed for not reading much into this a such....have you emailed ACE regarding fibreglass/carbon flip/removable fronts?

Thank you

yes

any flip front/removable steel or fibreglass/carbon, but i'm expecting they will say it alters the monococque and will require an IVA test

[jayare]

Any repair process that is in line with manufacturer's recommendations.....

I'd like to see them get any clarification from the manufacturers of our cars as to what is a repair process in line with their recommendations - just think about it - half the panels you can buy from BMH these days were impossible to get hold of from Rover or their predecessors and so no approved repair process would have ever existed! Also if a panel or part is NLA and I make or fabricate a replacement which is a slightly different spec or shape to the original, how would this be judged? And is any DVLA official going to know what shape an original inner wing was, for example? I'd be mighty pee'd off if one of my cars was called in for an IVA because some desk jockey decided something wasn't original or to the correct spec - where does the burden of proof lie?

JR

[Ethel]

There are a lot of Landrovers claiming historic vehicle tax exemption (that famous claim that 90% of them are still on the road) so I can see why DVLA would take an interest.

VOSA do have authority to conduct roadside tests but I don't know about DVLA.

DVLA explain their procedure on the website. You'd be asked to present the car for test at their local office (there's one in most big cities). You can't watch the test and you won't be able to drive the car away if it fails, there's also no appeal against the test itself. The test is only to check the car's identity (presumably you can't watch so you don't see what they check, if you're a car ringer) failure means you need an IVA to register it as a rebuilt vehicle.

Onus of proof isn't clear cut either. It would be up to them to prove a test is needed but up to you to prove you've complied with the criteria to pass.