356 replies to this topic

[Pauly]

if i get my mini deseamed or put a vtec in will it require a iva thanks dan

yes if you cut the seams off you have modified the monocoque

But you will probably have to deseam the shell to pass an iva anyway due to protuding edges .

[BoboGib]

or fit a moulding with a 2.5mm radius.

[benb12]

...A huge example is TV tax.....how do you guys pay this and not be angry about it!?

No adverts on BBC

And you only have to watch one show on an american TV channel and you really appreciate the BBC!

I mean come on, the end of the show, then adverts, coming back for the credits, then more adverts. I've seen this with my own eyes!

Is this some kind of English "inside joke"? I'm missing something here....when we had British TV in our house there were just as much commercials on as there are back home. The thing that gets me is the TV tax commercials that basically say "If you don't pay your TV tax and get caught watching TV then we will hunt you down and toss you in Jail". Kinda absurd if you ask me. Plus most of the programming was American TV shows anyhow....I've seen it all before! And NOW I have to pay for it?! The only Brit TV I ended up watching was Discovery Turbo....that was quite nice!

Completely off topic I know, but I feel it is important that I clear this TV license thing up!

The BBC is completely funded by the TV license. This means that no BBC channel has any commercial breaks (there are short breaks inbetween shows advertising a few BBC programmes but never during the programme). However, any non-BBC channel is funded by commercial breaks. That's pretty much the only advantage for us with the TV license, I quite like having my favourite shows (Top Gear etc) uninterrupted by ad breaks every 5 minutes.

Off topic over!

[1960Zody]

surely the most important thing about this is WHEN you had the modifiactions done? They are bringing in new changes to what constitutes a requirement for an IVA yes, but if your vehicle is already modified, and has passed numerous MOTs and changes to the V5/c have been previously accepted, the the DVLA have no leg to stand on as far as modifcations are concerned?

A 1979 standard mini has no chance of passing any current homologation test for a new motor vehicle, but does that make it illegal? no. To modify it NOW with the regulations changing to basically try to either keep it standard, or to make the modifications bring it up to date DO make it need an extra test, and could possibly make it unroadworthy.

so i guess the major question is a simple one... who decides if the car needs an IVA test? If I was to basically put a hayabusa engine in the back, change the front subframe to a Z-cars one, stick in a cage, remove the transmission tunnels and replace the roof, front end, rear quarters, and boot floor with CF ones, and go for an MOT which it passes, then how do I know I'm supposed to go to the dvla and declare it all and maybe go for an IVA? and what happens if i do do this, and get pulled by some nob with a clipboard outside of a show?

The regulations are not new, the points system has been around for 27 years, it's just that DVLA are enforcing those regs more strictly now.
The people who decide whether a vehicle requires a BIVA test are DVLA, (The test is carried out by VOSA).
If you do all of the above, the vehicle is clearly outside the 8 point scale and is liable for BIVA.
It is your responsibility to contac DVLA and inform them of the mods.
DVLA will point to this notificaton when asked "How did I know that I should do this"
http://www.direct.go...cle/DG_10014199.

It is a different matter when the vehicle is already modified in a way that puts it outside the 8 point mark.
DVLA 'should have' been advised of this when the vehicle was constructed, many vehicles were not advised and DVLA were slack in enforcing their own rules.
That. however, does not stop them from enforcing them now, should they choose to.
We, at ACE, know of 20 cases in the past 18 months where the registration has been withdrawn on vehicles that have passed several MOT tests.
These have been pulled for several different reasons.

The BIVA test is not a homologation test for 'New' vehicles, as such.
It is a way of getting a radically altered car, such as the one you describe above, on the road legally.

We have a link to the testing manual on the site and we can answer specific questions on a case by case basis.

Regards

Steve Wallace
The ACE Admin team
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

[gregh55]

great! thankyou

ive been told so much different stuff about this by different people that i just honestly dont care now. . . .my mini is nothing specail its a mayfair! LMAO

be different if it was a mk1 and i had it de-seamed etc and it went on a Q plate! then id be pretty pee'd off!

[1960Zody]

a couple of people have said that they do this every 10 years or so and it goes away because it doesnt get enough interest, so shouldnt we, instead of making a thing and panicing about it we should just ignore it and hope it passes?

just the people on a few forums could be enough for them to give the go ahead

unless im missing someting and it has a start date already

This has been part of the problem all along.
The whole campaign regarding SVA/IVA/BIVA goes back to the late 1970's, when the EWVTA system was being discussed.
Under that legislation there would have been no modifying of any vehicles at all.
That legislation even required a 30mph crash test.
A group was formed at that time to try and get the legislation modified to allow 'car culture' top continue and it was this group that got the SVA regulations in place.
Mainly, that legislation was used for Kit cars and 'Grey Imports', there wasn't a section under which an ameteur built or radically modified production vehicle could be tested.
BIVA was brought in as a kind of 'SVA llight' to allow this to happen.

The problem was that DVLA did not spend much time making people aware that the regs were there and that they should be complying with them, so we have a large number of vehicles that should have been tested and approved, but weren't.
Also, we had a large number of people that felt that 'If we don't tell them, they won't know' and then went on the web to explain how they registered a GT40 replica as a Mk2 Cortina.

Unfortunately, DVLA are not stupid, they can read the same posts as everyone else.

We are now in a situation where DVLA are enforcing their rules, people are falling foul of the regulations and there wasn't an organisation looking out for the interests of the enthusiasts.

This is where ACE came from.
We have spent a lot of time working behind the scenes to clarify things with DVLA and VOSA and will continue to pass the information out as and when we get it.

To quote an old song "We didn't start the fire"

Steve Wallace
The ACE Admin team
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

[1960Zody]

VOSA need to stick their neck out for once and make it clear what is classed as a modification to the shell. Presumably oversills fall foul, and if you patch a floor that must count, fitting a sunroof must be a big no-no... where does it stop? As someone said, drill a hole in the wrong place and it would be eligible. Perhaps the wings are slightly structural because it supports the front subby slightly?

VOSA are the ones who do the testing, not the ones who make the rules.
That is DVLA and their take on it is this:

What constitutes a monocoque is that of how an OEM manufacturer would view it. The chassis or `cage` assembly and all components that form it, less any cosmetic panels or infills that make no structural consideration to the monocoque or its component parts.

So, the monocoque on the Mini, is what BL or whoever would describe it as.
DVLA do say that "Each vehicle will be considered on it's individual merits", but that simply avoids them stating specific requirements for each vehicle.
Until we have a decent 'case file' of vehicles that have been through the test it is hard to be more specific than that although, at ACE we are able to advise on individual cases.

Steve Wallace
The ACE Admin team
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

Edited by 1960Zody, 25 February 2010 - 03:06 PM.

[Bungle]

great to have you on board Steve

the forum has lots of questions about this topic and hopefully now you are here you can do your best to find us some answers

i know the ACE site and topics like this have made me think twice about going for a flip front on my mini

[1960Zody]

great to have you on board Steve

the forum has lots of questions about this topic and hopefully now you are here you can do your best to find us some answers

i know the ACE site and topics like this have made me think twice about going for a flip front on my mini

Thanks Bungle,
I'm not quite as knowledgeable as someone like Kev, but I'll get responses as quickly as I can

Steve

[The Matt]

great to have you on board Steve

the forum has lots of questions about this topic and hopefully now you are here you can do your best to find us some answers

i know the ACE site and topics like this have made me think twice about going for a flip front on my mini

I echo Bungle's sentiments. I think the Mini scene as a whole needs a greater understanding/awareness of what regulations their "usual mini mods" fall under.

I will have a question for you soon, about the mini monocoque and the installation that I
am carrying out. But I need to prepare some sketches/photos for it!

[benb12]

Thanks for joining and clarifying some things Steve.

[Ethel]

Well done Steve,

A case file is likely to be the only way we'll get a better understanding and some consistency in interpreting the rules.

It will really help if anyone who has first hand experience shares it.

I still think the DVLA will be stretching things if they ask you to prove when a vehicle was modified (in those few cases that may predate any regulations) but how many of us have the resources to argue the point through the courts?

[1960Zody]

Well done Steve,

A case file is likely to be the only way we'll get a better understanding and some consistency in interpreting the rules.

It will really help if anyone who has first hand experience shares it.

I still think the DVLA will be stretching things if they ask you to prove when a vehicle was modified (in those few cases that may predate any regulations) but how many of us have the resources to argue the point through the courts?

Sometimes the 'proof' can be in the form of things like magazine articles if youi're fortunate enogh to have been featured or even build up pictures if these are dated.
Of course this is no guarantee that DVLA will accept them, but we have heard of this kind of thing being used.

Strangely, those who are on a Q plate already are the ones who are better off here.
The Q shows that, at some point in the past, the vehicle was inspected and found to be of 'uncertain origins' and was therefore issued with a Q (Questionable) number.
Therefore modications would not lead to that vehicle being 'Questionable' again.

To a degree, in the future, a Q plate may be a selling point as it would show that the vehicle is fully legal...

Edited by 1960Zody, 25 February 2010 - 03:51 PM.

[Guess-Works.com]

To a degree, in the future, a Q plate may be a selling point as it would show that the vehicle is fully legal...

I second that, I'd much rather have a "Q" plated car than some of the Heinz 57's which are doing the rounds nowadays...

[midridge2]

i am still not clear about this, under the 8 points system a shell can be modified and you can still have 9 points with out changing the other parts but if you alter the shell it might have to go for a iva. is that clear as mud.