356 replies to this topic

[Bungle]

After reading a few topics on the ace website and reading the bit about modifying bulkheads

"Monococque.

Q) What is the definition of a monococque ?

A) A design in which body and chassis are all one unit.

Q) Why does cutting into a monococque affect the vehicle identity if it retains the same shape /profile as before.

A) Cutting is considered to be modifying the vehicle from its original specification. Any modification to the chassis/monocoque body is considered to render the vehicle no longer original specification or of original identity.

Q) Is it acceptable to modify a vehicle bulkhead and/or transmission tunnel when performing an engine change or fitting another make?

A) No, Assuming this is in relation to a monocoque structure. This would be considered a modification to the structure. "

i asked a question about modifying the bulkhead for webber boxes and turbo boxes.I said that the likes of ERA and before them the works rally teams carried out these mods to the bulkhead with out problems in the past

today i received this answer


"Hi Geoff , it may be that Rover didn't actually condone or sanction ERA
mods but it would be difficult to prove either way now .Likewise rally cars
are often prepped outside of official channels and may never last long
enough to end up being inspected re roadgoing identity.

I spoke with VOSA are this and they say that whilst THEY ( unofficially as
no press release to verify ) have no issues with some minor clearancing for
bellmouths or a turbo pipe, cutting and fitting an ammo box size hole will
fall foul. Bear in mid that in the first instance it is DVLAs call NOT
VOSAs as to what affects the vehicles identity.

cheers
Kev Rooney ( ACE Admin Team )

Ps It doesn't help anyones case when they speak to VOSA complaining that
DVLA have unfairly pulled their logbook when 'all' they have done is change
to a motorbike engine and then in the process of questioning it turns out
there is a 2 foot section of floor removed !"

so it would seem anyone with a turbo or webber box will need an IVA test and possibly end up on a Q plate

i think my next question will be about flip fronts and engine conversions that require a different subframe (metro ETC ) but from reading the ACE site and topics on Volkszone you are also lightly to end up needing an IVA test

i will let you know more when i have answers

[rick.spi]

as some one said before would it not be a case of only affecting cars that are changed after the rule was bring in...

and what about the ERA's will they all be taken off the road?

[Bungle]

this question posted on volkszone got this answer

"if you can prove these mods were carried out more than 27 years ago then that is ok"

could be difficult to prove on a 1988 mini city

as for what about the ERA the only answer i got is above

[BoboGib]

Looking forward to hearing what they say on flip fronts. May have to buy a new front end and inner wings.

[taffy1967]

The ERA Mini Turbo was a professionally created model that was also sold through some of the larger Rover showrooms. So I can't see them forcing those off the roads as I'm sure it would have had some kind of type approval at the time?

Either way I've heard of these kind of draconian proposals before and none get passed. So fingers crossed this won't either.

[Ivor Badger]

To be strictly accurate, a mini is not a monocoque. In fact niether is a Lotus 25. the first true Lotus monocoque being a Lotus 38. Just because the structure is made from sheet metal does not make it a monocoque and if the mini was a true monocoque, it wouldn't have the internal bulkheads.

[dave21478]

Of course a flip-front will need an IVA test.

If they wont let you cut a bulkhead box in without testing, the absolutely will not let you cut the entire front of the monocoque, including the front subframe mounts, off of the car.
This is nothing new either. Flipfronts have always needed an SVA test, but nobody ever bothered and now that it is renamed IVA, people think its a new ruling. Its not, its just stricter enforcement of rules that have been in place for decades.


The rules were recently clarified a lot by The Ace on Retro Rides forum, and whilst some cutting on non-structural parts of a monocoque MIGHT be allowed in some cases without testing - ie fitting a sunroof - this clearly isnt the case for flipfronts.

[Mr. Bridger]

To be strictly accurate, a mini is not a monocoque. In fact niether is a Lotus 25. the first true Lotus monocoque being a Lotus 38. Just because the structure is made from sheet metal does not make it a monocoque and if the mini was a true monocoque, it wouldn't have the internal bulkheads.

That's what I was thinking. Surely the strength in a Mini is in the subframes, not the body?

[leaky]

This may be the stupidest question asked about this to date but like an MOT will your car need to go though and IVA test every year? Or is it just a one time thing then it has an MOT every year?

[Bungle]

just once unless you modify it again

[Bungle]

email revived from ace they are reading this forum

"The REGS ie 8 points system have been in place , in their current form, for over 27 years. The SVA , now BIVA, has been in place since 1998 .Before that all that was required was an inspection by DVLA and the logbook amended ,and number changed if necc.

DVLA have unfortunately been very remiss in letting all those affected even KNOW reg /rules exist let alone the ins and outs

The onus of proof is always on the owner even though the V5 /V5C may not even had a section for the owner to notify the change IE nowhere does it say you must notify if you alter the monococque. The fact that most did not even know that they should notify DVLA doesn't ,currently, stand as a deffence.

ACE ( www.the-ace.org.uk ) are doing all they can to try to resolve problems and provide support where possible. However, the rules will NOT change nor will the BIVA that altered vehicles need to go through to return to the road legally.

The systems we have are the envy of the bulk of Europe where they have nowhere near our amount of freedom and even the EU itself hates the fact that we are able to modify our cars within our current systems.

What we all ( that is all car modifiers as the Mini side is not alone in this ) need to realise is that there are rules and start to work within them or accept the consequences ( both personally and to our hobbies in general ). If you are starting now then plan your build accordingly if you do not want to go for BIVA don't modify outside the 8 points sytem.

ACE isn't here to tell anyone what to do ,only to do it from an informed point of view.

Please take the time to visit the site and have a look at our work, there is so much more going on that peple need to watch out for. "

[richardsoniscool]

Is an IVA test that bad? i mean, it will at least make sure these modifications are safe for the road? (assuming the testers will be fair and wont right off all modifications.)

[Bungle]

some might find this topic useful

[Darkscamp]

OMG I'm doomed



i spoke to my MOT tester about this a few months back and his info was;

"dont make such a big fuss about it all. they were on about this years ago and it just slowly went quiet and nothing more was heard. its the people that keep bringing it to the DVLA's attention every 5mins with phonecalls and emails that will eventually bring it into force, as the DVLA will see an easy way to get more money from the obviously scared modded car owners. keep quiet and it should go away again due to the initial cost implications of setting up the whole testing system".

(he used to work directly for VOSA)

Edited by Darkscamp, 18 February 2010 - 06:21 PM.

[Bungle]

just remember we do make it easy for the DVLA and VOSA

we post what we have done to our cars on forums like this(readers rides), then organize meets and post them on the forum with times, dates and places

all they have to do is sit on the road side and wait for us to come to them