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Rover Mini Cooper Si?

Started by fraggle_cooper , Jan 11 2010 01:37 PM

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36 replies to this topic

#16 Guest_minidizzy_*

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:32 AM

thats some awesome info.. where did you find this out?

I have just been very interested in John Cooper conversions. I have been collecting all the John Cooper brochures mostly on eBay. I have 1991, 93, 95, 97, 99 and 2001. In the last brochure only the 90bhp MPi kit was listed. In all there were, as far as I can see, 17 different conversion kits for the Classic Mini though some were for exported models. The brochures have photographs of many of the kits but the detail of the content gets more vague with the later brochures.
When John Cooper Garages closed down the last few MPi kits were taken by an employee, Mike Raven, who continued to have them manufactured apparently by agreement. I was tempted to buy one for my MPi. But then a year or so ago he appears to have got into financial difficulty and disappeared. My alternative plan was to find a carb Cooper with the original 1275 S conversion and I succeeded with a very nice RSP.
It is not difficult to replicate a Cooper conversion as several firms have stage three kits available but there is just something special about a genuine Cooper conversion with the certificate, chassis plate and heritage.

#17 rwiddi

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

cool. sadly i dont have the certificate which is annoying as hell! so i wonder if mr raven gave his name to my colour... raven black? or am i hoping on a link?

#18 iMurray

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:55 PM

I want one!

#19 Guest_minidizzy_*

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:08 AM

cool. sadly i dont have the certificate which is annoying as hell! so i wonder if mr raven gave his name to my colour... raven black? or am i hoping on a link?

If you have the chassis plate that is probably good enough. The certificates are nice to have but I think the signature is printed on.
I am guessing if yours is 85 bhp it is an MPi. The reference was MCC 1275IT. It was described as having larger valves, a polished and ported head, a high performance exhaust system and improved fuelling and induction. The upgrade to 90 bhp included an LCB manifold and air box.

#20 Mrpeanut

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:53 AM

Cheers minidizzy, that's some good information.

Do you happen to know the difference, if any, in performance of John Cooper conversions of the RSP and the mainstream carb cooper? The reason I ask is that Rover claimed they had the same power output and are widely regarded as having the same engine. I don't believe that true though. If the same conversion to both produced different results it would be interesting.

#21 Guest_minidizzy_*

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:20 AM

There is no difference in performance as far as I know.
When the RSP was introduced in 1990 it was supposed to be a limited edition but the demand was so great that Rover continued production as the Mainstream Cooper. The changes they made to justify the exclusivity for the original buyers of the RSP were to reduce the specification. Most were cosmetic, The Mainstream lost the bonnet stripes, spot lights, sun roof, leather trimmed seats and body coloured wing mirrors and wheel arches. The omission of the oil cooler was the only technical change.
As far as I know the engine remained the same. Economically Rover was not in the same position as BMC were in the 60s when the Mini Cooper had no less than five engine variations. The Rover Minis have the MG Metro version of the A plus engine. Many of the lessons learned from the Mini Cooper S engines went into the development of the A plus engine. The version of the A plus engine used in the Rover Coopers was originally fitted in MG Metros and had a higher performance camshaft.
The Cooper conversion kit for all 1275 carb Coopers was the same. The code was MCC 1275 ND. The only difference between RSPs and Mainstreams was that the Mainstream version included an oil cooler, which the RSPs already had fitted as standard.
The S conversion only became available after RSP production had ended and all RSPs are retro fitted. The first ever S conversion was to mainstream Cooper, H15 FUN, belonging to Mike Cooper. The second conversion was to John Cooper’s own RSP, one of only five with a G plate. This now belongs to the registrar of the RSP Cooper Register.
The conversion kit featured in every John Cooper brochure from 1991 to1999.

#22 Mrpeanut

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for that. It's the bit about the mg metro engine in both the rsp and the mainstream that I'm unsure of. My mainstream does not have the pull of an rsp, and the indications are that the difference is the cam. If the rsp conversion and mainstream conversion both push out the same power and torque then its fair to say that they have the same cam, presumably an mg metro one. I'm convinced my mainstream doesn't have that though so I remain unconvinced that the rsp and mainstream have the same engine, at least not in my car! They also had different engine codes and I'd love a definitive explanation of the differences between the two engines.

#23 Black.Ghost

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:55 PM

This is some really interesting stuff. I have a 92 SPi and it is about to be rebuilt and I was thinking of upgrading the engine, but I wanted to keep it A-series just with more power. I love the idea of the 1400 conversion but that would cost rather a lot I feel, so maybe I'll aim for the Super kit instead. But failing that I might just keep upgrading it! Like someone said, there is something about having a genuine Cooper garages car instead of replicating it yourself. Ideally, I want an injection mini to do 0-60 around 8 seconds or so for everyday use and reliability.

You have definitely given me something to look into though. Thanks!

#24 Dan

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:38 PM

The majority of the changes between the RSP and the Mainstream were simply due to production requirements or typical development related design changes, not any concerns about exclusivity of a model that was no longer in production! A lot of the special Cooper parts for the RSP were hand made in small batches as they would be for prototypes, and increasing volume to that required by a full production model was not at all practical. Even now getting spares and replacements for a lot of these parts is tricky and expensive. You often have to wait until some are made. Look at the price of an RSP auxiliary radiator fan switch for example. The change to the wheel rims too was due to concerns over the safety of the design, and the so-called RSP rims were in use on other models at the time anyhow. Changes were made to make the model production line friendly, cheaper to make, more reliable, and better.

Edited by Dan, 22 November 2012 - 05:38 PM.

#25 Guest_minidizzy_*

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:17 AM

That makes sense, Dan. I must admit I was just guessing the reason why the Mainstream was a bit simpler.
However, on the earlier question of engine differences I cannot find anything to suggest that might have happened. The official workshop manual includes the Cooper 1275 engine in the second edition. It gives all the technical data for a single type, not making any reference to the two models. John Parnell has been writing about Rover Coopers every month in Cooperworld, the MCR club magazine, but simply states that the Mainstream had the same engine as the RSP.
I seem to remember an alarming piece of information raised by Cooperman on this forum and he seems to have infinite knowledge on all Mini matters. Apparently Rover had serious cashflow problems before BMW took over at the beginning of 1994. Some manufacturers refused to supply components until they received money. I think Cooperman said it was not unknown for standard cams to be fitted to Cooper engines when they had run out of the higher performance ones. I am only speculating but perhaps this might be a reason for a Mainstream not performing as well as an RSP (or any other Mainstream).
On the idea of 0-60 in 8 seconds in an injection Mini that was exactly the figure quoted for the John Cooper 1400 injection kit.

Edited by minidizzy, 23 November 2012 - 12:23 AM.

#26 Black.Ghost

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:14 AM

Yeah I would love the 1400 conversion. If I could even find a genuine one I would be impressed, especially as I didn't even know about them until I read this thread!

To be honest, I'd be happy with around 10 seconds I think but anything less would certainly be a bonus. I know you can only choose two of power, reliability and cost effective. I just need to decide which 2 it is I want the most!

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:30 PM

This is, I believe, a Cooper 1400 conversion I photographed at Brooklands Mini Day in March 2010. It was for sale at an undisclosed price and only to the "right person". Mike Raven of Classic Minis was selling it on behalf of the owner. It was an RSP S conversion but was not specifically described as a 1400. The registration was H18 ORE, which I have read elsewhere is one of the very rare 1400 Ss. The clue is also in the registration H18 ORE means HiBore. There was another H15 PEC (HiSpec) and also Mike Cooper's H15 FUN.
The rocker cover here is different from the MG Metro type shown in the catalogue.
The lesser Cooper S conversion, which is what I have, supposedly brings the 0-60 down to a fraction under 10 seconds and not a great improvement on the standard engine, but the reduction in time for 0-50 is dramatic. The graph, if it is to believed, shows it coming down from about 10 seconds to about 5 or 6.
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#28 rwiddi

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:44 PM

Does anyone know it the conversions have a adjustable fuel pressure regulator/poer boost valve fitted or if not will it make much difference?

#29 Guest_minidizzy_*

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:31 AM

I believe the 90bhp S conversion for the MPi had an upgraded fuel pressure regulator.

#30 craig 1010cc

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:43 PM

I believe the 90bhp S conversion for the MPi had an upgraded fuel pressure regulator.


They do indeed. My last MPI was a Cooper Si. it differed from a stock MPI with a Janspeed head (stg3 type spec), 1.5:1 roller rockers, gas flowed inlet manifold (with modified throttle stop to get 90deg opening at the butterfly and the upgraded fuel pressure regulator), different airbox with a K&N filter, Janspeed LCB and Janspeed twinbox exhaust. You also got the enamel red badge inserts front and rear, Si badges for the rear 1/4's, a Si badge for the boot, John cooper dealer sticker in the rear window, conversion plate on the seat cross member, a leather key fob and a John Cooper branded duster (really)

And I disagree with all the "2.7 diffs kill the performance", out on the open road I found them perfect, and on the motorways they are spot on with the Si kit, drop into 3rd at 70 and your doing just over 4000 RMP and have plenty left to get passed trucks, upto 90 (on a private test track ;) ) before shifting into 4th. Yes you need to ideally slip the clutch a little in 1st for a quick get away, but after that if you run it to the red line it drops to 4k in the next gear and that is bang on the power band. In fact, down the back lanes I used to have no problems keeping up with my mate in his clubby that had a stg4 1293 and straight cut box ect
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