87 replies to this topic

[scoticus]

Well let me put it this way.

In the first 3 weeks of running my car, I changed the oil, and put in the "good stuff" thinking this was the best thing to do.

WRONG!!
I have never been in a car the run like that, lumpy and on most occasions refusing to do anything.

So, i dropped this "good stuff" out and replaced it with ASDAs.. ran like a dream.. smooth, reliable and quiet.

Enough said i think

[R1minimagic]

Which oil do you call the 'good stuff'?

Just because the engine sounds louder or whatever, it doesn't mean that the oil is not protecting the engine, in fact the one which sounds nice and quiet can be hiding a multitude of sins, strip the engine down and things might be a very different story!! Only time will tell..

Any oil which is worth anything would have the specification printed on the label.

Edited by R1minimagic, 20 December 2009 - 02:52 PM.

[scoticus]

I have noticed that you all keep talking about a spec...
but you fail to mention what this spec should/could/must say...


all i keep seeing when i read this is "this is reeeaaaaalllyyyy good oil, buy it!"

now i know it wont say that obvously...

anyone care to enlighten us?

[Dan]

by the way - Cheap fuel is not made from leftovers or recycled anything, it just doesn't have the same additive packages or approvals.

One of our members is a fuel inspector, he has posted reports and specifications on here. Supermarket petrol is exactly that, it's made from the leftovers that the major refineries don't use in their branded products and has supplements and additives added to get it up to octane. These evaporate off and break down and within 2 weeks of leaving the refinery it has usually lost a few octane points. Do you think Asda or Tesco own an oil field? I remember the last time there was a long thread here with people arguing the benefits of cheap fuel and saying 'it must be up to standard if they are allowed to sell it'. A week later Tesco had to buy 3000 people new engines. Since that famous problem Tesco have had more faulty batches and caused more engine damage but they keep it quiet now.

[R1minimagic]

Ok good on him, I have worked for one of the biggest fuel and lubricant additives companies for 6 years as a development/formulation chemist then technical manager, after that i worked for a major UK engine OEM solely responsible for specifying lubricants and fuel approvals so I think i might just know a little about this.

All gasoline fuels use some sort of octane boosting additives, the refineries are set up to operate that way to get the best value from a barrel of oil. Also C4 (butane) fractions are added to gasoline as they are of little value in the refinery (all refineries have this problem), that is what you can hear hissing when you take your petrol cap off.

All supermarkets in the UK sell fuel according to a specification e.g. for diesel EN590, you will see it on the pump if you look closely. The incident with Tesco was due to the fuel cargo vessel being contaminated with silicon and thereby getting into the fuel because the courier did not clean the tanks properly, the silicon then fouled up the lambda sensors causing the engines to run badly. Nothing to do with recycling or bad quality fuel, it was contaminated!!

Scoticus, the oil specification just tells you what ACEA and/or API class the oil meets, so it would just be a number such as API SH etc, on top of that the approvals by the various OEMs might be listed such as BMW, VW, MAN etc etc

If you want to know what the spec number refers to you can look it up on the internet.

It costs the additive and oil companies millions of pounds to prove that their product meets both the specifications and the OEM approvals so you can bet they are going to make sure shows that information on the label!! If it doesn't it's cheap crap!!

by the way Dan - Does that mean that super unleaded is worse for your engine than unleaded? And if you want to talk about damage to engines etc I have plenty of stories about engine failures due to fuel that has come from major refineries causing damage orders of magnitude £££ higher than the Tesco situation.

Edited by R1minimagic, 20 December 2009 - 03:48 PM.

[Dan]

No of course not, we all know that there are additives and supplements in fuel. It's not fair that people aren't getting what they think they are though whether its from a supermarket or not, for example when Optimax was on sale it was quite famous for not being a 97 any more by the time it got into your tank. I'm surprised to hear you supporting supermarket fuel, pretty much everyone else we've ever had here with serious knowledge about what fuel is and how it works has been dead against them because of the way they are composed.

[R1minimagic]

As long as a fuel, or oil for that matter, meets the specification there is no dictation regarding how you do that (as long as you dont use for example substances that are banned).

The same thinking applies to the major oil companies, they purchase crude oil from many different sources depending on price and availability, as long as the final products they make from that crude oil meets the specification it doesn't matter what they use as raw materials. They also 'mix and match' additives from many different additive companies. The supermarkets are using the same philosophy but for some reason they get a bad time about it.

Of course, any company can sell both good and bad products but that's life!!

Also, additives themselves tend not to be volatile and lost through evaporation, it is more likely the hydrocarbons from the base fuel that are lost.

Edited by R1minimagic, 20 December 2009 - 04:22 PM.

[cooperdan]

i always go for quality

[R1minimagic]

One thing to remember with fuels, especially nowadays with biofuel, is that it only has a short shelf life/use by date. For example, biodiesel is expected to be consumed within 1 month of leaving the refinery. To meet the specification the refiners have to produce a fuel that is exceeding specification by some margin as the fuel has to meet specification by the time it reaches the customer. Fuel is constantly changing/degrading due to it's composition anyway!

[leaky]

Like everything these day you get what you pay for. I use good oil in my car but that really cause that what my local car shop had for sale. It had a mini on the tin so I bought that. At the moment I use cheapo tesco fuel. 1 because my engine is buggered at the moment and over fuels so their no point in buying expensive fuel thats just gonna be burnt off with it backfiring. 2 because I can get clubcard points so I gat get my Thorpe Park annual pass.(I know I'm sad). I'v just bought a new engine that im gonna start rebuilding and put in around march time. When thats in im only gonna be putting the good oil and fuel in it.

Really though if it fits in to your budget then why not. It's not gonna do anything treble to your car. And if it does and you can prove it sue asda like people did to tescos when they had the bad lot of fuel.

[R1minimagic]

All diesel fuel will be out of specification soon anyway and I don't know how they are going to resolve it!!

Should be interesting!

[CaptainBland08]

back on topic... me and my mini mate have being using the smart price 20/50 for ages now... no problems... runs ace...

Chris

[DrStrat]

on the topic of fuel, can i ask, are you saying its better to fill up at a Shell or BP garage, than it is to stop at asda or tesco etc?

[Ethel]

I think the message is how long the juice has been sat in their tank is as important. I can't see your average carb'ed mini being that fussy & won't be optimised for having a different brew in its tank.

[jameswhiles]

Surely the supermarket and more expensive oil comes from the same refineries anyway? I mean how many oil refineries are there?