58 replies to this topic

[Trail of Dead]

Why do so many Brits dislike the BINI? I've been curious about this ever since I joined this site. I can understand not liking a car because of design, reliability, etc....example, I absolutely HATE the Ford Tempo. Nasty, Nasty cars and I don't know why they ever sold. But the BMW Mini I do like! Maybe it's because in the states we view BMW products differently? BMWs are so common here that they aren't anything "special"....to see any sort of beamer is no differant than seeing any kind of Chevy truck back home. They're just everywhere. But, back home BMWs aren't all over the place so when one is seen then the immediate thought is that person must have a lot of cash wrapped up in that BMW. It's the same with Mercedes too.

In my home town BMWs are pretty much only owned by a couple bank executives and some of the doctors at the local hospital. Basically those that earn $100,000-up. Heck, even Audi's are a "status symbol"! Personally I like the BINI, I like the BINI Clubman, and I like that "Countryman" thing too. They carry the same design cues and are clearly derived from the original. It's called Heritage. Take a look at the 2005 Mustangs.....they were well received in the states and they are modern examples of the older 60's era machines. I understand there being a gripe about a German company now owning the company and using a name that in all honesty is British but why weren't the BINI haters angry when the Mini name was used by Rover? To my understanding Rover is basically Honda.

I've seen all the stickers "100% BMW FREE", "How can anything BIGGER be mini?" etc..etc..but I thought this was "The Mini Forum"? I'm just a little confused by all the bashing. BMWs are well engineered cars, the BMW Mini IS a very big seller both here and abroad so how can so many people dislike it? I look forward to seeing the new "Moke" design they will be showing in Detroit. As someone else said, enjoy the Classic Mini/Moke but at least appreciate that those names are being carried into the future. You wouldn't want the Mini to end up like the next Chevy Corvair would you? It just faded into history........


(No flamers please, I am just trying to figure out why so much BINI hate)

Awaits Word War 3...



Anyway, it's more to do with the way that BMW tried to put loads of small Mini specialist businesses out of business, when they first bought Rover and basically because BMW bought Rover many people blame BMW for finally killing the last remaining mass-production British car company.

As a result, the hatred for my Minis is a lot to do with people easily being miss led (or uneducated in the area if you like), they think the New Mini was designed by BMW, so they automatically hate it and they also think that it was BMW's fault that Rover went bust.

Nothing will change that now, which is a shame, lots of people assumed that BMW bought Rover to save the company, which they didn't, they simply wanted the Land Rover technology (for BMW 4x4's) and the Mini name. People also assume that the new Mini was designed by BMW, whereas it was in fact designed in the UK at the Rover design studio, so they hate the design and don't like the fact that it resembles the original design rather than the concepts of the original Mini (even though if you look at the new Mini package closer - it does resemble some concepts and takes small mass production cars to another level, that, others have now followed).

So if you look at the facts... BMW didn't save Rover, but they certainly did save Mini, and thanks to them the Mini name will live on for generations to come

Then on top of that they created thousands of jobs at the new MINI plant in Oxford, which, if under the ownership of Rover would have never been built and Longbridge would have still closed (Rover would have gone bust no matter what). So, if you do the simple maths that means that there would currently be minus thousands of jobs int he UK.

Either way the argument stands and peoples hatred for MINI is justified, it's just a pitty that people even now (after 10 years - since the initial concept - which was a Rover) can't see the bigger picture.

Hmmm, alot of info I didn't know about! Thanks for sharing that! It's strange, it's like a catch 22....they saved a good amount of jobs and used a British design for the car but still did some things that can be considered shady to small companies related the Mini aftermarket? Am I right? Wow...

But as far as the design is concerned I really like the BINI design.....it's like I was telling Roofless when he came to visit me this past weekend, before my wife & I got stationed here in England I HONESTLY had NEVER heard of an Austin Mini (and I'm 29). I have heard of the MG and the Austin Healey.....but never the Classic Mini. So when the BMW Mini came about most of the people I knew thought all Minis were "Coopers". Only now that I live in England do I know better, but again to BMW's credit they did manage to push the Mini name into the minds of people like me.....that had never heard of it previously! It sparked my interest!

[skaterava]

I think the dislike of Binis probably comes from their nature. They were designed primarily as a fashion item, similar to the new Beetle and the new 500, because people like retro. A LOT (not all) of the people who own Binis don't do what a lot of classic Mini owners do: constantly get messy fixing it, maintaining it, upgrading it, driving all over the place to meets and shows. Most owners are not car enthusiasts, unlike a lot of classic Mini owners.

The amount of estate agents and hairdressers i know of and see who drive Binis just ruins it for me . I understand that BMW could never make something we would love, because classic Minis, let's be honest, are slow, unsafe and use a lot more petrol than they should. But to me it looks like BMW were just trying too hard to make it all look funky and retro. I would have preferred a little less concentration on the aesthetics, like the hilariously oversized speedo, and a little more concentration on the heart and soul of it, how it makes you feel when you drive it, the noise, the character.

[CMcB]

Back on topic, I was under the impression this launch is for something we haven't seen or heard of before - or is this 'Moke' the butt ugly SUV they announced a while ago?

I thought it was another new model, which if it is, will hopefully be a bit more beach buggy like.

Edited by CMcB, 09 December 2009 - 02:00 PM.

[skaterava]

I thought it was another new model, which if it is, will hopefully be a bit more beach buggy like.

With the current EU restrictions, i doubt it'd be like that. I'm expecting a jacked up Clubman with a pointier face.

[VicSkimmr]

I think the dislike of Binis probably comes from their nature. They were designed primarily as a fashion item, similar to the new Beetle and the new 500, because people like retro. A LOT (not all) of the people who own Binis don't do what a lot of classic Mini owners do: constantly get messy fixing it, maintaining it, upgrading it, driving all over the place to meets and shows. Most owners are not car enthusiasts, unlike a lot of classic Mini owners.

This is absolutely false on all accounts. The new MINI was designed primarily to be a drivers car. It's one of the best handling cars on the road and it easily trashes cars that cost 4 times as much as it does in the slaloms and in the mountains.

And there is a HUGE enthusiast community for it, or at least there is in the States. Actually I'd go so far as to say that the MINI has the largest enthusiast community of any car in the States.

Back on topic, I was under the impression this launch is for something we haven't seen or heard of before - or is this 'Moke' the butt ugly SUV they announced a while ago?

I thought it was another new model, which if it is, will hopefully be a bit more beach buggy like.

You're thinking of the abomination that is the Crossman. There aren't any official mock-ups of the Moke as far as I know.

[roberts]

The moke piccies in autocar said official (I'm pretty sure anyway :S), it was similar to the crossover, slightly smaller with a more funky back.

Edited by roberts, 09 December 2009 - 02:12 PM.

[VicSkimmr]

Oh you're right, I stand corrected

And for the record, both my MINI and my Mini have a lot of similarities, namely the amount of rattles in both of them. As BMW continues to germanify them, they can't seem to squash all of it's British heritage out of it

Edited by VicSkimmr, 09 December 2009 - 02:19 PM.

[skaterava]

This is absolutely false on all accounts. The new MINI was designed primarily to be a drivers car.

Not too sure about that, the over the top retro-ness, at least to me, suggests otherwise...

It's one of the best handling cars on the road and it easily trashes cars that cost 4 times as much as it does in the slaloms and in the mountains.

It's good, but i wouldn't go as far as saying it can outhandle cars that cost 4 times as much, considering the Cooper costs about £15,000 new.

And there is a HUGE enthusiast community for it, or at least there is in the States. Actually I'd go so far as to say that the MINI has the largest enthusiast community of any car in the States.

There is a community here too, but i'd say around 60-70% of Bini owners aren't car enthusiasts at all. Most are bought up by estate agents, middle class folk in central london, i know for a fact that foreign diplomats buy a lot of them, and also people in hairdressing/salon industry, to stand out a bit from the crowd.



Anyway, back on to the topic at hand,

are there any more variants in the pipeline? some sort of hovercraft maybe?

[CMcB]

I dont think they are official pictures, just renders and ideas from publications.

If it is buggy like, the pictures on page 1, the seond one looks like a Domino Pimlico - That would be cool!

Edited by CMcB, 09 December 2009 - 02:42 PM.

[VicSkimmr]

This is absolutely false on all accounts. The new MINI was designed primarily to be a drivers car.

Not too sure about that, the over the top retro-ness, at least to me, suggests otherwise...

It's one of the best handling cars on the road and it easily trashes cars that cost 4 times as much as it does in the slaloms and in the mountains.

It's good, but i wouldn't go as far as saying it can outhandle cars that cost 4 times as much, considering the Cooper costs about £15,000 new.

And there is a HUGE enthusiast community for it, or at least there is in the States. Actually I'd go so far as to say that the MINI has the largest enthusiast community of any car in the States.

There is a community here too, but i'd say around 60-70% of Bini owners aren't car enthusiasts at all. Most are bought up by estate agents, middle class folk in central london, i know for a fact that foreign diplomats buy a lot of them, and also people in hairdressing/salon industry, to stand out a bit from the crowd.



Anyway, back on to the topic at hand,

are there any more variants in the pipeline? some sort of hovercraft maybe?

I'm really not trying to start a war here, and I realize this is a losing battle since this is a classic Mini forum.

Can you really complain about the MINI not feeling or looking like a classic Mini and then complain that it's design is overly retro in the same argument? They're both very different cars and I like each of mine for very different reasons. I can understand why people think they're too trendy or too modern compared to the classic, and they are. Just please don't categorize all of us as sheeple who bought it because it's cute. It just seems that way because a lot more people own the new MINI, it's slowly growing out of it's niche market. You're probably right that 60-70% of owners of the new MINI use it as a grocery getter, but that still leaves room for a HUGE enthusiast community.

I'm looking for that slalom spreadsheet but I'm coming up empty. I'll keep looking.

Edited by VicSkimmr, 09 December 2009 - 02:43 PM.

[Trail of Dead]

Well, I certainly wasn't trying to start another BINI/Classic Mini war type conversation (and I wasn't trying to go "off topic").....I just saw the thread and then read through it and saw a few comments about a BMW Moke being labeled as rubbish before we even see the concept pictures of it! Yes, to add to VicSkimmr's point that in the states there is a MASSIVE enthusiast following....and they do have BINI shows. But I wouldn't go as far to say the BINI is the most popular car among the enthusiasts there. It is probably a toss up between Corvette enthusiasts, old school hot rod/muscle car enthusiasts and the newer (between the Fox platform all the way up to the current S197 'stangs) Mustang enthusiasts.....I fall into the latter category. I will be building a 650 horse 2003 Cobra upon arrival in the US again....but while I am here (till 2012) I will be devoting my time to my Classic Mini! I can't wait to drive it to a show back home.

[VicSkimmr]

Ok fair enough, it has one of the largest communities. Wranglers also have a huge following.


As far as the new Moke is concerned, I'm sure it will be completely different than the classic Moke. But lets be honest, what could possibly replace a classic Moke? If that's what you want that's what you'll buy. I have my doubts that a new Moke will be financially feasible, but I'm always for widening the appeal of the MINI brand

I can even live with the Crossman if it acts as a catalyst to bring AWD to the MINI brand.

[tid_171]

I have a feeling it will have no resemblance to the moke we all know and love. It will be like there 'clubman', which isnt a clubman.

[skaterava]

I can even live with the Crossman if it acts as a catalyst to bring AWD to the MINI brand.

I must admit, i would be interested to see how an AWD Cooper S would handle.

[rick.spi]

Oh dear...all i know as the owner of a 1966 moke...what ever they come up with will not:

1. Turn as many heads
2. Get as many cheers (and insults) shouted from the side of the road
3. Be as fun
4. be as impractical

as the old one!

and 5. be used by the auzzie army

dont get me wrong i absolutly love bini's!!! but i not a fan of this (ive seen the official piccy)