31 replies to this topic

[Ethel]

I'd keep the receipts and any correspondence with Mini Sport. If everybody knows how to fit a drop bracket, why do they include fitting instructions? More importantly why are there's incomplete and likely to cause mechanical failure and an accident? I reckon you could at least get the cost of the column out of them and you might even stop something nasty happening to their other customers.

[Min E]

I'd keep the receipts and any correspondence with Mini Sport. If everybody knows how to fit a drop bracket, why do they include fitting instructions? More importantly why are there's incomplete and likely to cause mechanical failure and an accident? I reckon you could at least get the cost of the column out of them and you might even stop something nasty happening to their other customers.

Some very good points there Ethel.

As I said earlier I have no proof of purchase or that the item is even theirs but I am a 'Watchdog' for Trading Standards and so I am inclined to persue this problem generally.

I don't know how many different makers there are of this bracket nor exactly to what extent, if any, instructions are included with each of them.

The point about selling an item with the potential to to cause mechanical failiure is a very good one and does need addressing. Although, I suppose the agument could be made that any adaptation or modification from the manufacturers original carries that potential.

Could I perhaps call on the services of this forum, though the MOD's, to perhaps start a thread asking all members for any information about the supply of these items.

Thanks.
Dave.

[Ethel]

Sounds like exactly the sort of thing an owner forum is for.
The issue here would be:
Does fitting the product, as per suppliers instructions, increase the risk of failure? Do the suppliers know about this? If both answers are yes, then at the very least they have a duty to tell you.

Minis are a bit of a special case, there's no dealer network to support them with genuine parts any more and a mass of spurious and custom parts from many different sources. We've had a several ball joint failures reported on this forum, something that I never heard of when I worked in an Austin Rover dealers. Of course it's just hearsay and conjecture, but it does make you wonder if there are substandard joints on the market.

[GraemeC]

You could always order yourself another from MiniSport and see what came with it

[Min E]

Sounds like exactly the sort of thing an owner forum is for.
The issue here would be:
Does fitting the product, as per suppliers instructions, increase the risk of failure? Do the suppliers know about this? If both answers are yes, then at the very least they have a duty to tell you.

I'd be happy to start a new thread in order to gain information but within a few days of posting it it is lkely to be lost at the bottom of the pile of new threads.

Is there a way of keeping it to the fore so that members who visit the forum less frequently see it and which section would it be best posted in?

[Ethel]

I'll put it forward for discussion with the forum staff.

We could pin a "product recall and alerts" topic, I'm sure.

The only concern is that it doesn't turn into a general whinging thread for anyone with a grudge against any particular supplier. A few ground rules would be needed, such as it's only to be used for problems with the product and not just the supplier and the issue must be taken up with the supplier first.

It might also be best if it's just maintained by TMF staff with users requesting a link is added to their topic on the issue.

[Min E]

Thank you.

I think a 'product re-call' or 'allert' would be a very worthwhile section and totaly agree with the constraints.

I look forward to news of it.

Dave.

[Min E]

I happened to notice that Simon@minispares was viewing this thread a few min's ago.

I'm a little surprised that he left no responce, perhaps he's gone to look at the instructions supplied with their bracket and will be getting back to us with some good news.

My thanks to his company still stand and I hope that it is them that Target are getting my steering column from.

[[email protected]]

I happened to notice that Simon@minispares was viewing this thread a few min's ago.

I'm a little surprised that he left no responce, perhaps he's gone to look at the instructions supplied with their bracket and will be getting back to us with some good news.

My thanks to his company still stand and I hope that it is them that Target are getting my steering column from.

I was having a look at this, and just looked at the thread from yesterday. Not sure you can blame a steering drop bracket on this. The instructions in ours say that the rack needs loosening, in order that it rotates when you move the column down. This has nothing to do with the pinch bolt on the bottom of the column whatsoever. The bolt pictured in that first thread is not standard fitment, it already looks like it has had a bodged bolt/screw fitted, this would be more likely cause for concern over the steering drop bracket. Dan has also picked up on this in an earlier post. It would also imply that someone "may" have had a problem with the bottom of the column in the past, and the recent changing and moving by fitting other components have now aggravatted an issue that was already present on the car

[Min E]

I'm unsure whether it is in the right place yet, or even if the right place yet exists?

I may be accused of being biased because I started the thread but I think you would agree that it does (as does the other thread in this section) contain information that could be considered extremely important to members safety.

These two threads are now tucked away in a sub forum which itself is headed 'Traders' and so would not be of interest to anyone who is not a trader and that heading is wthin the 'Classified' section which by definition is for 'advertising'.

Surely any information about possible dangerous products or practices is worthy of prominance.

Therefore, I would propose that a completely new heading called perhaps 'Important Product Information' or 'Product Allerts' should be created and it should be either in the 'Technical' section or even pehaps be its own section as do 'Z Cars' and 'Regional'.

Perhaps other members would like to comment on my thoughts; (if they can find this thread).

Dave

[Min E]

I happened to notice that Simon@minispares was viewing this thread a few min's ago.

I'm a little surprised that he left no responce, perhaps he's gone to look at the instructions supplied with their bracket and will be getting back to us with some good news.

My thanks to his company still stand and I hope that it is them that Target are getting my steering column from.

I was having a look at this, and just looked at the thread from yesterday. Not sure you can blame a steering drop bracket on this. The instructions in ours say that the rack needs loosening, in order that it rotates when you move the column down. This has nothing to do with the pinch bolt on the bottom of the column whatsoever. The bolt pictured in that first thread is not standard fitment, it already looks like it has had a bodged bolt/screw fitted, this would be more likely cause for concern over the steering drop bracket. Dan has also picked up on this in an earlier post. It would also imply that someone "may" have had a problem with the bottom of the column in the past, and the recent changing and moving by fitting other components have now aggravatted an issue that was already present on the car

Thanks for your comments Simon and good to know that your instructions are comprehensive. On the whole I agree with you but it must be noted that the very first responce to the steering problem thread was "Have you fitted a drop bracket"?

I would think that in itself would indicate a known problem.

Dave.

Edited by MINY, 03 November 2009 - 02:29 PM.

[[email protected]]

As per my post above, looking at what someone had fitted as a bolt to pinch the bottom of the column would suggest a fault, or at least the start of it was already present on the car, prior to it having a column drop bracket fitted.
Should look more like the one in the link below, from the factory
http://www.minispare...ty=pb&pid=36065
Link to pinch bolt fitted to car
http://www.theminifo...x...t&p=1631580

I note the original response Dan made, he also then commented on the state of the bolt, after the pictures had been posted. The known problem is people not loosening the racks when fitting these, as Dan also pointed out in the original thread
http://www.theminifo...x...t&p=1630766

[Min E]

As per my post above, looking at what someone had fitted as a bolt to pinch the bottom of the column would suggest a fault, or at least the start of it was already present on the car, prior to it having a column drop bracket fitted.
Should look more like the one in the link below, from the factory
http://www.minispare...ty=pb&pid=36065
Link to pinch bolt fitted to car
http://www.theminifo...x...t&p=1631580

I note the original response Dan made, he also then commented on the state of the bolt, after the pictures had been posted. The known problem is people not loosening the racks when fitting these, as Dan also pointed out in the original thread
http://www.theminifo...x...t&p=1631580

There is of course no excuse for the wrong bolt being fitted and that in itself would preclude any claim I might consider I had.

However, the fact remains that there are drop brackets being marketed (yours obviously excepted) which do not come with sufficiently detailed fitting instructions to prevent a serious malfunction of a vital component and it is this that I am concerned about.

I would doubt that you manufacture or package your own brackets and would therefore ask that you check with any supplier that you use or know of that they are aware of the problem.


Dave.

[[email protected]]

Agreed. We buy the brackets in loose, and then add our own instructions. It would be entirely down to any other specialists to supply with or without instructions. The bracket itself cannot create a fault, not being supplied with the correct information to fit it properly is where the issue lies

[Dan]

This is indeed a known problem. It's been reported on here several times and in almost every case, when the symptoms are described in a certain way the problem is down to the fitting of a drop bracket. The pinch bolt can't cause a problem until the column has already started moving on the rack pinion. If the spline is tight then all the pinch bolt does is prevent the bottom of the column opening up, it doesn't even really do any clamping. The spline carries the load, not the bolt. I have never seen anyone besides Mini Spares include instructions with the brackets, they usually come shrink wrapped to a piece of card with no information and with a new column bracket bolt which is made from a woefully inadequate material. I do honestly believe this all too common problem is the direct result of these brackets being fitted poorly due to the lack of instructions.

I have to agree, I don't think this is the right place for this thread. I think we should have a section for important product warnings and I agree with Ethel that it should be for admin / mod use only and treated as a reference section for the members. I was thinking about this when Burnard was having trouble with dangerous wheel studs last month.