483 replies to this topic

[zeemax89]

So popped back home today. Hoping to take the mini for a little outing early Sunday morning but not got a lot of time to do anything else as I'm sorting the aircon on the Evo and its become more involved that I first thought. I cant help but want to tidy things up when i see them so whilst replacing the condensor and dryer is straight forward I have a list of other little jobs to-do while its all in bits.
I cannot stand corroded nuts and bolts and I have two handfuls of them which need replacing where possible

right,  I think you need to rip the R1 lump out and put the engine and drive train from this in..

[racerlike]

That would be a good conversion - probably a first for a mini too?
Having said that power to weight between this (361bhp 1280kg) and the mini (150bhp 570kg) is actually pretty close.

[racerlike]

So ive been thinking of ways to keep the water temps down as from limited test runs in the mini its apparent that it gets hot quickly and continues to rise in temperature unless I intervene and flick the fan on. Around town i had to have it running continuously.
I have an expansion tank to help but having no heater obviously doesn't. Also the fan itself creates an obstruction to the natural airflow and along with the open inner wing of the removable front i think it would benefit from some way of controlling how the air passes through the radiator.

I think remember reading that fibreglass/carbon front ends suffer from opposing airflow due to the missing inner wing so wondered how others overcome this?

[Helldriver]

So ive been thinking of ways to keep the water temps down as from limited test runs in the mini its apparent that it gets hot quickly and continues to rise in temperature unless I intervene and flick the fan on. Around town i had to have it running continuously.
I have an expansion tank to help but having no heater obviously doesn't. Also the fan itself creates an obstruction to the natural airflow and along with the open inner wing of the removable front i think it would benefit from some way of controlling how the air passes through the radiator.

I think remember reading that fibreglass/carbon front ends suffer from opposing airflow due to the missing inner wing so wondered how others overcome this?

you need an oil cooler, the bigger the better and best front mounted (eg. on subframe). Minimum 13 rows, better 19 or 22. With more weight the engine gets more stress=oil heats up and due to you have mineral oil (because of the gearbox/wet clutch) you need to keep it below 110 degrees max, average shouldn't be over 95degrees. Yes the oil makes 130-140 but your engine internals not...hope you are using 20W50 mineral oil as it gives you better cooling and higher temp ranges.

And to have the fan running in town is quite normal as the R1 has a totally different temperature behavior due to more stress as the a-series.

[racerlike]

That's interesting as I've not heard of anyone else using mineral oil, only the normal fully synthetic. But something I might investigate further then.
Yeh I guess an oil cooler is probably the way to go - I need to get some proper road miles in really to give myself a benchmark to compare against as I make improvements

[Helldriver]

That's interesting as I've not heard of anyone else using mineral oil, only the normal fully synthetic. But something I might investigate further then.
Yeh I guess an oil cooler is probably the way to go - I need to get some proper road miles in really to give myself a benchmark to compare against as I make improvements

R1 has on oil circle system together with the gearbox and the clutch is a wet clutch. The clutch plates needs to soak a day in mineral oil before mounting them. Yamaha suggests 10W40 semi-synthetic oil JASO MA2 oil from Castrol but many R1 drivers report clutch slipping problems with this oil. Also Jaso 2 MA mineral oils are approved.

Fullsynthic is worst for the wet clutch and gearbox of the old R1 till 2004, throw it out immediately, maybe you can rescue your clutch plates. The old R1 gearbox clutch+works best with mineral oil.

The racers suggest with 5 pw using 20W50 mineral oil JASO MA2 norm as it is has better high temp stability then 10W40 and at the same time gives the clutch plates max grip. You have to make sure that oil is approved for bike use with wet clutch which is the JASO MA2 norm. The cheapest 20W50 JASO MA2 oil is more then enough, no need to go premium brands as the JASO ma2 norm is far above what the gearbox needs.

[duds100]

Thought I better just add my findings on my R1 mini as I have experienced quite the opposite actually. I was running a big Radtec aluminium side mount radiator and a front mounted 13row oil cooler. On track at Castle Combe Action Day my oil temps did not exceed 90degrees but my coolant just kept rising and rising until the red warning light illuminated on the clocks - I saw about 118 degrees I think at one point. 2laps flat out is all I could manage before I would have to slow right down to a constant 60mph to let the coolant temps stabilise before I could give it the full beans again.

On the road if I hold a constant speed of anything over 75mph my coolant will exceed 100degrees.

So... I have moved the oil cooler round to the side a little and have installed a second coolant radiator (so this +my Radtec) where the oil cooler previousy was. Hope you don't mind me posting, here is a pic;



Not tested it yet as the weather is rubbish so unsure to how effective it will be. Rad was custom made by a guy local to me and cost £140.

Also I use Yamalube oil which was recommended by my local Yamaha dealer, Alf England Motorcycles. Temps stay nice and low as mentioned and I have never experienced any clutch slip to date.

[Helldriver]

@dud: that is interesting. Yes semi-synthec or mineral oil Jaso Ma2 but no full synthetic as your clutch friction plate will dissolve over time with pure synthetic oil. You can find this on every r1 forum. The seller of my engines raced on R1 5 PW 10years so he has a lot experience and he told me to use the cheapest mineral 20W50 JAso MA2 oil as most of the racers do from his experience. The same said Jon from Lynx who uses 20W50 mineral in their R1 miglia too. And cheaper then 10W40 castrol.

 

water temps: Do you use the yamaha water thermostat? If yes throw it out, as it is opening by far to late.

lynx recommend to use no water thermostat at all. Maybe this is fixing your issue.

[duds100]

@helldriver. I don't have the thermostat fitted and also run water wetter. I believe the problem is lack of airflow to the side mount coolant rad at speeds over ~75mph. A ram air duct would potentially help somewhat but I wanted to be sure so I fitted an additional rad and front mounted it. I may even downsize the oil cooler of offset the extra weight. Will see how the temps hold on the next trackday.

@racerlike. I would encourage you to think about an air duct to the side mount rad. I run with my side mount electric fan on permanently. Coolant sits at about 67°C max at idle but as soon as the air speed rises I think it chokes the rad fan. Constant 70mph holds about 94°C but any more than that it just climbs and climbs and i'm forced to slow down to let it cool again... Castle combe was a frustrating day!

Edited by duds100, 13 December 2014 - 10:17 PM.

[racerlike]

Cheers for the input guys. Without the water pump driven fan the side mounted rad was always going to struggle. I think first off I might sort out a cowl for the rad to make sure the airflow goes through rather than around it and maybe some sort of ducting to force air through it.
The car was never intended for track use but I still want an efficient and reliable setup for use on the road. Had a car that required one eye trained on the water temp at all times for fear of overheating and it was no fun

[racerlike]

Off home for the weekend to drop off Christmas presents. Been a few months since ive seen the mini. I`d even forgotten about the alarmingly leaky diff - this will need removing and resealing which is a pain.
It does however open the opportunity to install the Quaife LSD which I couldn't quite afford when I originally bought the kit.
Is it worth the upgrade for those that are already running one?

[mark-stranraer]

Dont R1s operate at 100+ Degrees anyways im shure

[Helldriver]

Dont R1s operate at 100+ Degrees anyways im shure

You are right they originally do but this only due to emission regulations.

With the doubled weight to push the mini the engine already suffer huge additional stress (=higher internal temperatures) plus less self-cooling of the engine due to it is "trapped"in an engine bay of a car it is recommended to keep water temps lower at around 90 degrees to support faster heat transfer and to have a buffer for peaks. Additionally the old R1 are also recommended/experienced to work best to use mineral oil due to the wet clutch so with a lower temp level the oil stays also cooler.

[Helldriver]

@racerlike: yes a diff is definitely a big improvement, more then have 20PS+ as you get your horses much butter on the street. Till 2010 with the facelift R56 we were forced to race in Mini Challenge Switzerland without a mechanical diff and that was pain in the ass. With diff I was 3 sec. faster per lap then without in Hockenheim with suboptimal temperatures at around 32 degrees compared to 15 in the year before.

[racerlike]

Well not much of an update other than the leak from the diff was not as bad as expected and was down to a couple of bolts on the side casing not being fully tight.
Sorted the loose door hinge and loose driver door mirror.
Battery is knackered however so that needs replacing. Turns out its now over 4 years old but never really had any use over that period.

Going to book a weeks holiday for 1st week in March and get that mot sorted