28 replies to this topic

[Trog]

Hi Folks,

Does anyone know where I can get engineering drawings, or even better, CAD data forthe A series engine? Reason? I am fed up with looking at over priced 8 or 7 port heads, wondering how hard it would be for a qualified engineer to design one! With CAD data I would have a good head start (No pun intended!).....

[MRA]

If you go to KAD and buy their most expensive off the shelf head with all the best bits you will end up with more change than if you get one designed from scratch......... unless you know someone who can design on the cheap and knows about cylinder heads

Design fee on an hourly basis = £lots, a minimum of 200 hours and all the machining development work on top would give you a minimum bill of £8000..... now if you get someone who really knows heads and what needs to be done to get good results, then double it

There are loads of "so called" engineers and designers who think that they know how to design a product just because they can operate a CAD system be wary of these people as you will end with a large bill and nothing to talk about at the end of it all

[Trog]

If you go to KAD and buy their most expensive off the shelf head with all the best bits you will end up with more change than if you get one designed from scratch......... unless you know someone who can design on the cheap and knows about cylinder heads

Design fee on an hourly basis = £lots, a minimum of 200 hours and all the machining development work on top would give you a minimum bill of £8000..... now if you get someone who really knows heads and what needs to be done to get good results, then double it

There are loads of "so called" engineers and designers who think that they know how to design a product just because they can operate a CAD system be wary of these people as you will end with a large bill and nothing to talk about at the end of it all

I guess I didn't make that quite clear I am an experience Automotive Design Engineer, working for an OEM............

If I can get the CAD data it would make my time investment reasonable (and FUN!)

[Cooperman]

Since the original head design goes back to about 1950, it's unlikely that any CAD data exists.
Obviously you would need a really effective 3D CAD system with solid modellimg capability, such as CATIA, and why would anyone use such a system to 'reverse engineer' an old A series head?
As Martin has said, it would take a lot of CAD hours to generate the A series head as a 3D solid model, and still more to re-design it and carry the model into a production data package.
I wonder who has the original hand draw drawings, if they still exist.

[MRA]

I do

[newdawn1st]

Lol, hmm Don't they do a 'smug' Martin? to be honest you'd be the first person on here I'd think of that might have stuff like that.

[roofless]

i was offered access to all the drawings to the BMC 8 port head last week. last year at a show a guy turned up with about 200 drawings for various A series heads - the stuff is out there, I guess you just need to be in the right place at the right time.

[Trog]

I do

Will you share them with me?

I know CAD data exists, as I had a friend who worked at Rover for a while... The Mini was re-engineered well into the 1990's when everything was CAD based. Only issue would be for me is that it was all done in "CADD5". but i think I have access to a translator that will give me .iges or .step files.

Can we also assume that I know what I am doing? Like I said I am an experienced design engineer who has seen a number of programs through from beginning to end and understand the size of this task.

Right now I would be interested in the data so I can investigate some concepts etc..

[Sprocket]

if you know what you are doing, start from scratch, the CAD will not be lying around on just anyones computer, and I doubt very much it would be free either. If any one has it it will be BMW, and perhaps a slim chance British Motor Heritage, but as I recall, BMW bought Rover, stripped it of the good bits and left the reast to fester, the Mini being one of the best bits.

Martin is right, KAD have done all this as have Jack Knight and the tooling costs will be daft, what makes you think you can make a better design much cheaper?

Not trying to be negative, but if you are as good as you say, then you should be able to do it off your own back I personaly like the reliability of a mass produced product that has been proven to work for nearly 20 years, all be it with slight modification. The hardest bit has already been done and is available cheap but then, I am biased

[Sprocket]

Lol, hmm Don't they do a 'smug' Martin? to be honest you'd be the first person on here I'd think of that might have stuff like that.

I have original blue prints of the 1978 A+ 1275 revisions with pre verto clutch and inertia starter. Plan, front, rear, left and right elevations

[newdawn1st]

for Sprocket, guess is close enough to smug

and to the OP, apologies for unintentionally spamming your thread, free bump

[bmcecosse]

Can't be that hard to start from scratch - the dimensions of the bores/head studs/push-rod holes/valve centres etc are well known! The 'design' part will be to simply ( ) arrange the ports as you want them - with good water passages throughout! Can't be too hard if you are an experienced Designer!! Whethere or not you can get someone to cast the finished item is another task altogether!
Some 45 years ago - I remember there were some lads in Hawick who had 'modified' a standard head to make it 7 port crossflow (and fitted it with 4 X Amals) - by brazing in pipes!! It worked (as in - the engine ran) but sadly it leaked water all over the place. 10/10 for ingenuity and effort though!

Edited by bmcecosse, 01 October 2009 - 09:53 PM.

[Sprocket]

What we want are 16 valves and GDI

[MRA]

Can't be that hard to start from scratch - the dimensions of the bores/head studs/push-rod holes/valve centres etc are well known! The 'design' part will be to simply ( ) arrange the ports as you want them - with good water passages throughout! Can't be too hard if you are an experienced Designer!! Whethere or not you can get someone to cast the finished item is another task altogether!
Some 45 years ago - I remember there were some lads in Hawick who had 'modified' a standard head to make it 7 port crossflow (and fitted it with 4 X Amals) - by brazing in pipes!! It worked (as in - the engine ran) but sadly it leaked water all over the place. 10/10 for ingenuity and effort though!

It's a lot harder than you think as everything has to fit in and the biggest mistake designers can make is to expect everything to fit in as intended It doesn't often happen.......

[bmcecosse]

But this is a highly experienced Automotive Designer - no chance of mistakes there - surely!