16 replies to this topic

[orcadian]

Having finished my Clubman Estate with the late MPI engine unit, Chris and I enjoyed a great trip to the IMM 2009 in Longbridge. The running gear has now done only 7500 miles since Rover employees drove it off the line. I have just checked the front suspension rubber cones and find that the trumpet edge is now level with the surrounding deformed rubber and there is now only about 3mm space between the bump stop and the top arm. I have owned Minis for over 40 years and have never experienced this (to this extent) ever before. I have read on the forum that this is a well known problem on late cars - so did it come as a surprise to Rover that the front end was now heavier that the old 1959 Mini, and therefore need a re-design?
I have bought a set of 'Smootha rides' and adjustable trumpets - does anyone know how many miles these are likely to last? I know I can keep jacking the front up, but eventually the inside of the rubber on the cone will touch the top of the tower inside effectively acting just like another bump stop with no suspension.

In some ways it's a good job that Rover has gone to the wall - otherwise I would be lining up for a claim against them for selling products 'not of merchantable quality'

Edited by orcadian, 19 September 2009 - 07:36 AM.

[mykweb]

I have a 97 Mpi cooper and when I replaced the front and rear donuts and trumpets in 2005 they were still in fairly good condition. There wer e no realy issues with them. There was still plenty of use left in the rubbers.

I was fitting negie camber, lowered dampers, and hi lows, so I went the whole hog and fitted red dot donuts.

At the time of fitting the original dunlop donuts had done around 75,000 miles.

I do know that some of the later sports packs were made a bit shoddy, with items not being painted where they were not visable, like under the number plate light, and also no laquar on the inside wings and under bonnet. Would not suprise me if they used cheaper parts to cut costs.

Top that with the 13 inch wheels fitted this did add some extra strain to the front suspension and stearing racks. This sometimes causes them to fail prematurely.

For a solution to the issue. I would look at some good quality rubbers. your choices are Red Dot sports rubbers, These are slightly stiffer, but will increase the handling, but in turn you will get a bit more vibration into the car. Or get a set of Original Rover rubber components made by dunlop. I got 4 a couple of months ago for £130.

Never heard to much about the smootha ride kits, but I do remember one person saying it did not make that much difference to his daily driver.

Mike

[orcadian]

Thanks for that Mike,
Your experience of 75000 mile donuts still being useable is exactly what have always experienced, but as I said my all genuine Rover (1999 Sportpack) running gear has only done a tenth of that (7500) and they are already down almost to the bump stops at the front. I will fit the new smootharide stuff and see how it goes over the next few months. I need to sort it to go to Bavaria next year - otherwise there will be no capacity for carrying wine! The back just needs to be a little higher, but the adjustables should sort that, Many thanks
Ian

[bluedragon]

The MPI's were not that much heavier than the models preceding it. I have never heard of genuine Rover cones collapsing to that degree. Softer yes, but not to that extent.

But a few years ago, there was a scandal about counterfeit cones that collapsed just as you describe. Is it possible that you unluckily landed some of those fakes? Maybe they were subbed in?

[orcadian]

Yes, I suppose that it is possible that these cones are fakes, but it would mean that Rover themselves had bought them!! I broke a damaged 5000 mile from new Sportpack Cooper to build this Clubman Estate and that is where the parts came from - I can't imagine the previous owner changing the cones during its first year (I bought it when it was 9 months old) It's a mystery to me, but I will wait and see what happens after fitting the Smootha-rides and adjustable trumpets.

Edited by orcadian, 19 September 2009 - 07:35 AM.

[redhotmini]

dont forget that rubber deteriorates with age. i had bought 2 sets of tyres (8 in total) for the mini, as they were at a good price. stuck one set on the car, and another in the garage to use when the ones on the car wore out. about a year or so later, when i went to change the tyres, the ones stored in the garage had started to crack and perish, yet the ones fitted on the car were fine (although bald!). Goes someway to prove that a car with a reasonably high mileage is just as good as a low mileage car in terms of rotten bits.

[Dylan8660]

Consider also a spring conversion from the likes of minitastic, I've had mine in for a good while now and am not dissapointed.

[Dan]

As hinted at above, it's not driving that wears out rubber cones. It's simply time. Late Rover cones last about 7 years before they start to fail.

The MPI's were not that much heavier than the models preceding it.

They were considerably heavier actually. The Mini gradually gained weight during the 90's. From weighing in at a kerb weight of around 650kg in the mid 80's the official kerb weight of the MPi was over 800. More bitumen pads, more soundproofing, thicker carpets, larger seats, more coolant, injection equipment and SRS systems, armoured door bars. It all adds up and by far the biggest weight gain was found in the change to MPi. Rover changed the rubber compound of the cones, added bump stops to the rear and extended those at the front with a spacer to try and help.

[orcadian]

Thanks for all the help folks, I had thought that the MPI was heavier, but had not really thought about the age link - and although this car was low mileage and less than a year old when I bought it as a write-off, at the speed I work, and with other bikes and cars to play with, it's now 10 years since the bits rolled off the production line!!! So perhaps it's a bit more understandable. It will be a while before I get round to fitting these Smootha-rides and adjustable trumpets, as I am just about to replace the cam belts on my 1500 GoldWing - but I will report back with some pics of the knackered donuts and my impressions of any improvements in due course. There will also be an update on my web site.

Thanks again folks!

[bluedragon]

As hinted at above, it's not driving that wears out rubber cones. It's simply time. Late Rover cones last about 7 years before they start to fail.

The MPI's were not that much heavier than the models preceding it.

They were considerably heavier actually. The Mini gradually gained weight during the 90's. From weighing in at a kerb weight of around 650kg in the mid 80's the official kerb weight of the MPi was over 800. More bitumen pads, more soundproofing, thicker carpets, larger seats, more coolant, injection equipment and SRS systems, armoured door bars. It all adds up and by far the biggest weight gain was found in the change to MPi. Rover changed the rubber compound of the cones, added bump stops to the rear and extended those at the front with a spacer to try and help.

Regarding the MPI weight, true the MPI's were heavier, but that increase isn't going to flatten the front cones much sooner than a 80's Mini. Certainly not to the extent of utterly collapsing them. It wasn't as though the weight doubled. It's only the weight of an adult passenger...

The rear bump-stops were meant to deal with clunking of the cones when unloaded. The front spacers were meant to give extra clearance for the big 12" and 13" wheels being used in the later Minis. Both changes were done before the MPI's (90s, rear bump stops actually 1st showed up on the ERA Turbos.)

I actually thought Rover softened the cones for a better ride - I can't recall, but this re-mixed rubber compound was introduced before the MPI Minis. Anyway, I had 63,000km on my MPI cones. They were still serviceable, and they looked like any other cone with 63,000+ km I've seen (squashed somewhat, but not collapsed or crushed nearly flat.

[orcadian]

I managed to get the camera into the awkward space (what! on a Mini!!) to take a shot of the extent of the problem on my front suspension. They were taken with the car on the ground. I have certainly never experienced it before in over 40 years of Minis and have had cones over 20 years old and cars with higher mileages than those quoted before I ventured ito MPI land - so I either got a poor quality set or they did indeed soften the compound and neglect the extra weight. The other factor is that this is a Clubman estate shell, and although I have not checked, I would suspect that the shell is a little heavier at the front with the slightly more substantial inner wings and front panel. When you put your finger ends where the rim of the trumpet is, it is as near as damn it level with the deformed rubber, in other words, when viewed from the front, you can see nothing of the alloy trumpet as it is being shrouded by the rubber. I also slid a scrap piece of steel strip between the bump stop and top arm, like a thick feeler gauge - it was 3mm thick!!

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Edited by orcadian, 25 September 2009 - 10:39 AM.

[mykweb]

i just think you have a bad set of rubbers

I would replace them with new rubbers, as said above. Either red dot uprated ones or original rover parts.

Mike

[gbar]

What are Red Dot cones? Dunlop?

George

[mykweb]

What are Red Dot cones? Dunlop?

George

dunlop are the original ones, and the common choice when replacing the rubbers

Red Dot rubbers are slightly stiffer and used on track/race cars. Offer less roll but makes the ride a bit harsh on a road car. But worth it.

Mike

[Boycie]

Well, those 'doughnuts' certainly are compressed. In fact, they look about the same as the ones on my car.. but mine are 34 years old and have seen 68,000 miles!!
It's true that Rover changed the cone to a softer compound, presumably, as said above for ride comfort reasons. Also, don't forget that later (1990-on IIRC) cars had different knuckle joints, with a built-in spacer to increase ride height...
progress????!!