14 replies to this topic

[rendersonique]

Hi there,
I have a 1968 Cooper S and since my car has been on the road I have always had a slight knocking noise when reversing. Pretty much everything on my car has now been replaced since I completed its restoration at the start of summer with the exception of the universal joint. I know that the joints on my car have a metal cross section with four perspex roller bearing runners on each end similar to the ones in the link below.

http://www.minispare...itle=DRIVESHAFT COUPLING SIMIL...

Whilst browsing some of the auto jumble stores yeaterday at Stamford Hall, I cought sight of the part below. What I did notice was that the outer roller runners at in fact made of steel. I am thinking that this is probably a better version than the one I have on my car already. Its obviously new old stock, and unfortunatly the guy only hade one for sale (£10). I have done a quick search on ebay, but have not yet found a matching unit.

Does anybody know why this was made in steel, are there any obvious benefits / disadvantages of it being produced in steel, and can anybody point me in the right direction as far as sourcing a second?

Edited by rendersonique, 14 September 2009 - 02:52 PM.

[bmcecosse]

Steel because it was not unknown for the plastic ones to be distorted by over-enthusiastic tightening of the U bolts! But a Cooper S 'should' have the proper prop-shaft type couplings - the ones you show are (much better) substitutes for the old rubber cross couplings.

[dklawson]

Thank you for the Mini Spares link! The QL-5000 joints have been unavailable for years. I was delighted to buy a NOS set and then find a second NOS to keep as spare. It's good to see that Mini Spares had introduced these again!

I believe the metal cup joints were primarily fitted to performance Minis instead of the nylon cup QL-5000s (which were already an upgrade from the rubber cross as Roy mentioned). I happen to have a metal cup set which came off of an ex-racing gearbox I bought (for a spare).

I would not hesitate to buy the Mini Spares parts with the nylon cups, just be careful torquing them to the yokes as Roy mentioned. Heritage Garage in the U.S. is currently making and selling aluminum cup versions of the same. However, their comment about the metal cups (and this would apply to the steel as well) is that you must be very careful setting them up so they don't bind. This makes them a bit harder to install than the nylon cup version. Regardless, finding the steel cup version will take a fair amount of digging should you wish to go that route.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that if you currently have a set of nylon cup QL-5000s, you can rebuild them if the nylon is intact. The propelershaft u-joint from a Triumph TR6 is the exact same part as the u-joint in a set of QL-5000s. Press the old u-joint metal bearing cups out of the nylon (very easy to do) and press the new TR6 ones in and you have a full functional joint.

[rendersonique]

Thank you for the Mini Spares link! The QL-5000 joints have been unavailable for years. I was delighted to buy a NOS set and then find a second NOS to keep as spare. It's good to see that Mini Spares had introduced these again!

I believe the metal cup joints were primarily fitted to performance Minis instead of the nylon cup QL-5000s (which were already an upgrade from the rubber cross as Roy mentioned). I happen to have a metal cup set which came off of an ex-racing gearbox I bought (for a spare).

I would not hesitate to buy the Mini Spares parts with the nylon cups, just be careful torquing them to the yokes as Roy mentioned. Heritage Garage in the U.S. is currently making and selling aluminum cup versions of the same. However, their comment about the metal cups (and this would apply to the steel as well) is that you must be very careful setting them up so they don't bind. This makes them a bit harder to install than the nylon cup version. Regardless, finding the steel cup version will take a fair amount of digging should you wish to go that route.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that if you currently have a set of nylon cup QL-5000s, you can rebuild them if the nylon is intact. The propelershaft u-joint from a Triumph TR6 is the exact same part as the u-joint in a set of QL-5000s. Press the old u-joint metal bearing cups out of the nylon (very easy to do) and press the new TR6 ones in and you have a full functional joint.

Thanks for the info DK.

[rendersonique]

I am setting off this afternoon to Goodwood. I would like to get this Uni Joint fitted on the driverside side before I go as I have noticed the output shaft is fouling the exhaust slightly. I don't think it will take to long to do (hour I am hoping). Can anybody give me a good reason why it may take longer, as every task I have performed so far on a mini has always taken a great deal longer than anticipated! . Basically I don't want to end up having to strip half the car down and then find I can't get it back together and have to go to Goodwood in a Ford KA!

Edited by rendersonique, 18 September 2009 - 08:20 AM.

[bmcecosse]

If you are in a hurry - it WILL take much longer! Sod's Law.

[rendersonique]

If you are in a hurry - it WILL take much longer! Sod's Law.

Good point well made

[dklawson]

If you're fitting the metal joint, elevate the front wheel after you've tightened things up and with the gearbox in neutral, turn the road wheel. Note any binding and/or tight spots. If you find any you may need to loosen, bump, and re-tighten the u-bolts. I have no first-hand experience fitting the metal joints, only hearsay from Heritage Garage.

With the nylon joints the thing that annoys me the most is the torque spec in the instructions. I don't remember the torque value for the u-bolt nuts but it's low. The kits were made with both nylok nuts and deformed thread (all metal) lock nuts... yet the specified torque value is the same. It's difficult to get a torque wrench under the car unless you've got a lift or work in a pit. AND, the torque on the nuts is close to the amount of effort it takes to run the nuts down the threads BEFORE you reach their seated position. I'd say give yourself some extra time and expect a few minor problems.

[partsguy1]

The Metal Caps are actually easier to install because you don't have to separate any ball joints to install them. Unlike the nylon caps, the metal caps will pass through the u-bolts, this lets you set the cross in the middle of the yokes, then slide the caps on from the outside after the u-bolts are already partially located in the yokes. With the nylon caps you have to slide the u-bolts over the caps because they have that extra hump on the back side that does not allow them to pass through the u-bolts. At least that is the way I do them.
Does that make sense?
[attachment=89679:Steel_Cap_U_Joint.JPG]

[rendersonique]

Just to let you helpfull guys know that I have replaced the joint, and after doing so all you have said makes sense. I have had to use a ring spanner to tighten the nuts. Used deformed head nuts as they came with the kit and the profile was slightly shorter than the nylock ones I had been using. Was concerned with them hitting the exhaust and it seems to not be quite so tight now. I have just torqued the u bolts up to what I think is an acceptable level, and only drove it down the drive so not 100% everything is Ok. Hopefully will be able to post again later when we reach the hotel in Basingstoke with positive news:thumbsup:

Edited by rendersonique, 18 September 2009 - 03:22 PM.

[rendersonique]

Got to Goodwood and back and all is well. Done 2800 miles in the car so far in the last 4 months. Recomend Goodwood Revival to anybody that has not already been before!!

[rendersonique]

Can anybody tell me where I can get one of these Universal Joints from as minispares advertise them as being out of stock, and have not had any for at least the last 3 years. They also say that they are not confident that they will get any in some time soon. I have replace the off side U/J with the one pictured above, but I really think that the near side will need replacing soon as there seems to be some movement in that area, and I seem to have a small oil leak from that side also. I am just a little concerned that it may do some serious damage if I leave it unattended.

Any help much appreciated

Andy

[Sprocket]

Ebay? New Old Stock?

[dklawson]

Google for "Heritage Garage" and "Seven Enterprises". Heritage has aluminum cup versions of the QL5000 for $200/set. Seven sells a steel cup version for $270/set. They are the only firms I know that have U-joint versions of the rubber cross at the moment.

[rendersonique]

Just in case anybody is interested, I had a phone call last night to say that the new Mini Spares Catalogue was now out showing new items in stock including a reproduction of the HQ Universal Joint. A phone call today confirmed that they are now in stock at a cost of approx £40 a pair including VAT. I have a set on the way