27 replies to this topic

[dickster]

I have a 1995 Cooper and am about to replace the whole suspension as it would appear that its past its prime, I have bought some Hi-Lo type adjustable trumpets, new knuckles and Konis suitable for a lowered set-up and four new genuine Rover rubber cones.

Reading months Mini Mag Keith Calver answers a question about wheels rubbing on the lip of the wheel-arch (this is happening to me also) but he also suggests that Rover made their cones out of softer material which tends to give approx 500 miles of normal service then they collapse again. I'm concerned as I have the cones now-they're even stamped Moulton on them, surely Rover realised the problem and modified the cones after so many years?

Has anyone else heard of this apart from from Mr Calver (he has mentioned this before) and what should I have bought? has anyone fitted new genuine Rover cones and had issues after a short time or have they been alright?

Cheers-me-dears

Edited by dickster, 30 August 2009 - 06:41 PM.

[chappy]

those ones will be fine... its just 50 year old technology, its not going to be great.


with your tyres rubbing, could be a number of things, from bent tie rods to just having wider wheels than standard and not cutting the arches to compensate.

EDIT: the genuine rover ones were the dunlop cones that Calver wrote about...

Edited by chappy, 30 August 2009 - 06:46 PM.

[taffy1967]

Well the hi-lo's will sort out any rubbing problems and the genuine rubber springs will be fine. You could have fitted the slightly harder type rubber springs (that Mini Spares also sell), but with hi-lo's and Koni's you really shouldn't have a problem.

At least my 1990 Mini Cooper is still riding on it's original rubber springs and when I bought it in early 1994 the front end was slightly lower than the rear.

So in 1996 I fitted adjusta-rides (similar to hi-lo's) and I've been very happy ever since. I will fit new rubber springs one day (well my Mini has done over 99,600 miles) and I'll be more than happy with the genuine ones like what you've bought.

Edited by taffy1967, 30 August 2009 - 06:48 PM.

[taffy1967]

those ones will be fine... its just 50 year old technology, its not going to be great.


with your tyres rubbing, could be a number of things, from bent tie rods to just having wider wheels than standard and not cutting the arches to compensate.

EDIT: the genuine rover ones were the dunlop cones that Calver wrote about...

Yes the genuine types have Dunlop/Moulton stamped on them.

The cheap after market types have been known to completely collapse after a few miles.

The genuine ones just shrink and go hard with age, but don't completely collapse.

[dickster]

He said it was the genuine one that collapsed though and I'm certain they say Dunlop and Moulton on them from memory.

I actually bought a whole kit inc lower camber arms and tie-rods so I thought I'd replace the tired suspension first then consider my options regarding arch work later on if its still an issue.

[taffy1967]

Well I think I'm right in saying the genuine rubber springs were made slightly softer during (or around) the late 1980's in an attempt to refine the ride quality. But I don't know the full facts about how soft and how detrimental it was to their longevity?

But my Minis almost gone around the clock and is still riding on it's originals, so they can't be all that bad?

Love your Windsor Davies avatar image too, I once met his father at an oap retirement home and he showed us loads of photo's of his son from when he was a young actor.

Edited by taffy1967, 30 August 2009 - 08:09 PM.

[dickster]

Well I think I'm right in saying the genuine rubber springs were made slightly softer during (or around) the late 1980's in an attempt to refine the ride quality. But I don't know the full facts about how soft and how detrimental it was to their longevity?

But my Minis almost gone around the clock and is still riding on it's originals, so they can't be all that bad?

Love your Windsor Davies avatar image too, I once met his father at an oap retirement home and he showed us loads of photo's of his son from when he was a young actor.

Ok well thanks chaps for the advice.

Taffy-Lovely Boy Lovely Boy!! I'm old enough to remember him on TV in the eighties, it ain't half hot was probably too early for me although they did repeat it in the eighties so I had to make do with Never the Twain to get my fresh Windsor fix, also had Donald Sinden in remember?? Must've been interesting meeting his father!

[Hughes]

For what its worth Mini Spares recommended I put their hard cones on the front and standard on the back.

[Dan]

Mini Spares cones, the red spot type at least aren't hard cones. They work by being a better designed shape than the originals (the shape was designed for Innocenti Minis) and being better made. The yellow spot cones are harder. For the record the original cones aren't the right shape for the car, they were thrown into the design as a stopgap at the last minute because the hydrolastic system wasn't ready for launch and Alex Moulton isn't happy with them. His preferred design (for the front) is the type sold by Mini Sport in the Smooth-A-Ride kit but BMC / BL / Austin / Rover / BMW never invested any money in improving the setup. Actually that's not quite true, the grade of rubber was changed a few times over the years and BMW did change the grade to try to make the ride more compliant as said above but that was mainly because the late 90's Minis are a lot heavier than the springs were originally designed for and not really because they wanted to improve the system.

As for the quality of standard springs, it's not Rover's fault that springs made recently have been of poor quality. Rover don't exist any more so it can't be their fault. Springs made at the end of production and for the first couple of years after production ceased will last about 6 years in use at the front of a Mini, and seemingly indefinitely at the rear. I've just taken out two from the rear of a car that I fitted in 1999, they re-gained their original shape within a day of being removed and are still soft to the touch, they're fine. The two that I fitted to the front of the same car at the same time were ruined when I removed them a year ago. As time has gone by however the quality of original springs has declined. I believe that Mini Spares have just sorted the situation out and are now able to provide top quality original type springs made to the proper specification. If you got your springs recently from Mini Spares and they have a very crisp and fresh looking Moulton logo on them, they are probably the new production batch and will be fine. I don't know it other specialists have them in stock yet.

I've had Mini Spares red spot cones on the front, and standard springs on the rear for the last year and it's an OK setup. Better than standard and far better than the tired springs they replaced. I've just swapped out to red spots all round though and the difference is amazing, even though I've only been on a short test so far.

[Hughes]

I've just swapped out to red spots all round though and the difference is amazing, even though I've only been on a short test so far.

Would be very interested in your thoughts after a longer test Dan

[Mr Joshua]

I will be swapping back to cones from the coils I have fitted at the ealyest oportunity and your post has given the needed guidence, cheers.

[dickster]

I will be swapping back to cones from the coils I have fitted at the ealyest oportunity and your post has given the needed guidence, cheers.

Why out of interest? did you fit coils or coilovers?

[deanmoke]

I've had Mini Spares red spot cones on the front, and standard springs on the rear for the last year and it's an OK setup. Better than standard and far better than the tired springs they replaced. I've just swapped out to red spots all round though and the difference is amazing, even though I've only been on a short test so far.

Did you have any issues with the car being too high even with the HI-LOs wound down?
I have fitted Red Spots and HILOs to the front of my 13" wheel Moke and the car is sitting far too high causing the tops of the wheels to lean outwards excessively (Positive camber?). Even winding the HILOS right down doesn't lower it far enough.
Dean

[GraemeC]

With red spot cones and HiLos it is recommended to shorten the HiLo body by around 10mm and the adjusting bolt by 25mm to be able to achieve a low car.
Shortening the HiLo body will be a machining task - not a hacksaw!! Shortening the adjuster can be done with a hacksaw/grinder.

At your own risk you could run without the lock nut which would allow the HiLo to adjust shorter - you would still need to shorten the adjusting bolt though as it will hit the centre of the cone.

[deanmoke]

With red spot cones and HiLos it is recommended to shorten the HiLo body by around 10mm and the adjusting bolt by 25mm to be able to achieve a low car.
Shortening the HiLo body will be a machining task - not a hacksaw!! Shortening the adjuster can be done with a hacksaw/grinder.

At your own risk you could run without the lock nut which would allow the HiLo to adjust shorter - you would still need to shorten the adjusting bolt though as it will hit the centre of the cone.

Thanks Graeme but I'm not actually trying to lower the car, I just need it to be at a standard height but there doesn't seem to be enough adjustment to get it into the normal height range.
Dean