259 replies to this topic

[BMC]

Oh ok. so insurance costs would go up for a safety feature?

[mini-luke]

Yup, as they have (probably correctly) deduced that those that fit a roll cage are significantly more likely to crash.

[Bungle]

Oh ok. so insurance costs would go up for a safety feature?

putting lots of steel tube around your head is not a safety feature

if you don't believe me try running head first into some scaffolding

[Spud_133]

Fitting show cages are nearly as safe as poorly adjusted seat belts

[BMC]

i want a rollcage to make the car stiffer IF involved in an accident. my mum seems to think they arent safe cars. my dads owned minis all his life & never died in one lol he has never actually crashed a mini. the rollcage would only be if my mum dosnt shut up about safety. a mini is allready a small car inside lol. I wouldnt drive more aggressivly just because it has a rollcage. if anything i dont want one because it adds weight. i will probably endup with a fiberglass flipfront

Edited by BMC, 18 March 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[Bungle]

. the rollcage would only be if my mum dosnt shut up about safety. a mini is allready a small car inside lol

that's the problem you are filling a small car up with lots of steel tube, if you hit your head on this steel tube your likely to be dead or a vegetable

no wonder your mum is worried

[tiger99]

And, if he fits his fibreglass flip front, he is very seriously reducing the impact absorbtion capability of the front end, and making getting killed much more likely, with or without a cage. But in any case it would be a modification to the monocoque and need IVA, which it would not pass, and the car would never be on the road again legally.

[iMurray]

Well this sucks...

[Bungle]

would you prefer the German no mods system ?

[sledgehammer]

I'm building a 2 seater convertible / pickup

for the IVA , will I definitely require a roll over bar ? several new convertibles don't have a mid one ,

I will be fitting a lower b-post bulkhead brace , & a post front screen pillar uprights & usual convertible reinforcements

just wondering if a rollover bar is required ?

I want to fit the minimum for the IVA - (if it ain't there it can't fail theory)

[keefr22]

Yes it will be illegal to modify new cars at all very soon.

So, do you know how people like M-Sport, just to pluck an example out of the air, can still take a brand new Fiesta & modify it into a World Rally Car? I haven't seen anything suggesting that the WRC is going to finish this year (as it would have to if new cars can no longer be modified), the cars run on current year reg. plates rather than Q plates, & given the mods needed to turn a shopping trolley into a WRC, I'm guessing they must fail any points test by a wide margin.

Keith (totally confused, & a bit worried as my Mins bulkhead may not be standard!)

[keefr22]

. the rollcage would only be if my mum dosnt shut up about safety. a mini is allready a small car inside lol

that's the problem you are filling a small car up with lots of steel tube, if you hit your head on this steel tube your likely to be dead or a vegetable

no wonder your mum is worried

However, should you roll the car, a properly fitted, homologated roll cage will hopefully stop the roof coming down & squashing you...

And if you're fitting a cage, most people will also fit proper seats & harnesses & there will be far less chance of your head ever coming into contact with said steel tube, which most sensible people will also have wrapped with FIA homologated padding, so it'll be a wee bit softer than a steel roof covered with vinyl headlining....

Keith

edited for speellin

Edited by keefr22, 02 October 2012 - 11:49 PM.

[Ethel]

I expect companies like M Sport will put their cars through IVA, if they are built from brand new parts they'll get new registrations so won't be obvious. Failing that, they will have been included in the homologation of the base car.

The thing with safety cages is that the occupants will be wearing crash helmets if they are likely to be used in anger. The cars will also be used where head on collisions with other vehicles & fixed solid objects will be less likely than losing control at high speed and turning the car over - pretty much the opposite to what is likely to happen in a road traffic accident. You'll have provided the means to rapidly decelerate your head, however well padded it is, in exchange for protection against an event (rolling) that is a rare occurrence.

We've had quite a few Mini crashes reported on TMF over the years, some resulting in heavily mangled Minis, touch wood no fatalities or permanent debilitating injuries, other than three reported third hand (that I can recall) - a head on in a Scamp kitcar, one that was bounced off a Chelsea tractor into a big, solid tree and this sad event.

Sledgehammer,

Strange as it seems vehicle structure isn't tested by the IVA, destructive testing of individual cars wouldn't be popular with the owners & there isn't really any other way. There's a link to the IVA manual at the front of this topic, see what it says. there's certainly a specification for safety belt anchorage locations if not roll-over protection.

[miniweights]

The way I see is, any car will be safer for the occupants with an FIA/MSA approved cage. But only if it’s fitted correctly, and with approved protective padding fitted in the appropriate places where your body could come in contact with the cage. The protective padding is there as a safety feature for the when helmets are not being worn, such as when you are travelling along public road sections to and from special rally stages, it also protects an expensive piece of kit from getting damaged.


At the end of the day, Insurance companies think you are going to race on public roads if you have any motor sport product fitted to your car. They assume you will be a higher risk, and let’s face it, most of us like a bit of “Spirited Driving” now and again so you can’t really blame them.

Edited by miniweights, 04 October 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[keefr22]

The way I see is, any car will be safer for the occupants with an FIA/MSA approved cage. But only if it’s fitted correctly, and with approved protective padding fitted in the appropriate places where your body could come in contact with the cage. The protective padding is there as a safety feature for the when helmets are not being worn, such as when you are travelling along public road sections to and from special rally stages, it also protects an expensive piece of kit from getting damaged.

Couldn't agree more! And I think to be honest that if 'you'll have provided the means to rapidly decelerate your head,' to the extent that it's going to hit the front bar of a cage two inches or so in front of the top of the windscreen, the accident will have been severe enough that your head is not going to stop before it goes into the screen top rail anyway. I still think that the extra stiffness and structural integrity provided by a full cage (especially with door bars) will inherently make a small tin box like a Mini a bit of a safer place to be - after all, roll cages aren't just for roll-over accidents, they are to try & keep the inegrity of the passenger cell intact, & most race/rally accidents tend to involve hitting solid objects head/rear end on!! And I would aso like to think that our full harnesses will hold us further away from any possible contact with any part of the interior than a standard inertia reel belt would do. And road rally crews don't wear helmets. But it's academic as we have to have the cage for sprints/hillclimbs..!! (And it's just my - laymans - point of view, I'm not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it. Honest!)

As to M-sport and modifying new cars, just out of interest I did a DVLA vehicle enquiry on Latvala's 2012 Rally GB car. It doesn't state the model designation unfortunately, but it does have the same vehicle type approval as a standard 1600. What is also interesting is that the WRC rules stipulate a 1600 turbo engine (& a prodrive MIni WRC is shown as 1600cc, but the type approval is N/A & CO2 emissions 0g/Km!!) but the vehicle record shows the Fiesta as being 1388cc! I find it strange that Ford would give away 200cc displacement to their rivals, so wonder if they've registered it incorrectly?! And I'm really annoyed that a works Ford WRC pays less VED than my bog standard 8 year old Focus..!!!

Sorry, I realise I'm veering way off topic so I shall shut up now...!!

Keith

Edited by keefr22, 04 October 2012 - 03:55 PM.