259 replies to this topic

[The Matt]

When I talked to DVLA about registering my engine change, they put me in touch with a guy from VOSA to talk through my proposed modifications.

I explained to him that I intended to trim the lower edge off the inner wings, in order to fit an engine conversion and give me the clearance I needed. I included a diagram and some VERY basic stressing calculations/diagrams and they agreed that my proposed modification wouldn't be deemed a structural modification to the monocoque. I retained 80-90% of the inner wings, the front panel.was 95% there (just trimmed out for alternator clearance on the O/S of the grille aperture) and the outer wings were intact. I emailed them several times and think I still have backups of the correspondence. I may look into contacting this Mark guy at VOSA whom I dealt with.

I'd love to get some 100% clarification on specific mini modifications. The main ones are flip fronts and weber boxes. I'm sure I could look into getting some FEA (Finite Element Analysis) done on a 3D model too. Like-for-like stresses on Flip Fronts versus standard. The problem is whether it's about structure, or about identity. If it's just about them not wanting us to retain the vehicle identity due to it being modified from its type approval state, then maybe we're screwed anyway!

[The Matt]

When you think about it, why should we be allowed to just modify our cars however we see fit? Without any form of checking, nor approval to carry out the works to any kind of standard in the first place?

I mean, we can't do it with our houses and they're less likely to have a knock-on effect with other people than cars are! If you've got a listed house, you're not even allowed to upgrade to double glazing without reams of paperwork and approval from some council planning bod.

[Ethel]

They are two separate sets of rules really, that's why it gets confusing. Apparently for the dvla too!

 

All the dvla should be interested in is that the car is (still) the one the V5 was issued to. VOSA just do a, limited, test that any homebuilt vehicle meets the minimum standard, according to the current regulations. The big anomaly is that the dvla can pull you because it's not the original body structure (chassis, monocoque), but an IVA won't assess that structure in any meaningful way.

[mk1coopers]

It's an interesting topic, which I've been watching for a while now, I do own a highly modified Mini, but it was done by a company back in the late 60's, I have the documentation to prove this, and the V5 is correct, however if I got stopped at a roadside check I wouldn't have all this with me, so no doubt I would have to prove that the mods were done before the rules came in, which may involve presenting the documentation to the DVLA, (and now that've shut the local offices that would be a trip as I wouldn't send the originals throughout the post) or a trip to a VOSA station to present it all. Would I spend ££££ changing a car in a way that these days might result in an IVA, probably not, however there must be a way of checking modifications (by an official body) without having to make the car comply with all modern safety requirements, but again this throws up problems of liability if the modification fails, so we are back to a MOT style test where the the modification is check once and declared safe 'at time of test' and the mod is recorded on the DVLA records and then shows that it's been looked at at subsequent MOT's

 
You will be fine mate.
 
Roadside tests would not cause you an issue as your V5 is correct. to be honest they are very unlikely to be interested in giving you hassle at the roadside unless you are drunk or uninsured etc etc.
 
The computerised system is where the "human" common sense has been removed. Garages (some not all) are getting scared of the rules and are going above and beyond to protect themselves with the check boxes.
My de-seamed van with a roof chop had a note on the advisory page that the roof height had been lowered in both 2011,2012 and 2013.
My V5 states special bodied and also has a note in the front section of the log stating that its rebuilt from parts some of which are not new.
Im sure someone has seen the mot notes and checked against the V5 every year and can see its all correct so they have given me no hassle.
 
I contacted DVLA about fitting non original from panels to my elf as they are no longer made. I fitted a clubby front with the inner wings and they were more than happy for me to go ahead.
I did pop it over to VOSA as they asked to see it once completed.
The inspector said that forward of the shock mounts he considered the panels not parts of the monocoque safety cell structure so wasn't concerned. 
This may be on a person by person approach so don't go fitting fibreglass fronts and brace bars without asking first.
 
With sensible planning and a few questions at DVLA and VOSA I'm sure we in the mini scene can carry on with most mods.
 
I understand the frustration of some members on here about the dangerous mods and in some cases even the death traps. Just ask first and allow the extra money for testing within your build.

I've got enough evidence to prove when the mods were done, including period pictures and magazine articles, and the mods to the car pre date the current rules so it shouldn't be a problem , Minis (and lots of other cars) have always been modified, it's just a case of keeping yourself and others safe, which is only sensible

Edited by mk1coopers, 26 December 2013 - 09:10 PM.

[Archived1]

couldn't agree more

[Ethel]

I suspect the authorities (or their clued up employees) are of the same mindset, but the dvla vehicle identity rules is the tool they have  to try and ensure common sense. The IVA is secondary, they wouldn't be bothered if a dodgy vehicle never made it back on to the road.

[mini1955]

 

hi

 

does this car of mine need an iva test

dvla have refused a v5

thay have had a load of photo's they even said go and mot it

 and tax it if i want to  so now i have a mini with a full m.o.t

full insurance and cannot use it

apart of what you see in the photo the car is as it left the factory

standand 998 ,brakes steering subframes ect are standard

 

any comments

thanks102_4290.JPG

How have you ben getting on with this mate?

 

hi thanks for asking

had a letter from dvla saying the car is going to be a q plate and must have an iva

than I had a new v5 come in the post with all the old details on, now confused???

so not sure what to do at the moment

[Archived2]

Strange to get the old V5 back?

 

Its good that you are working with the system rather than trying to work against it.

[Bungle]

post from my local police facebook page ( i'm not their friend it was linked to me )

 

For your info; A joint agency operation was carried out on Saturday 25th January 2014 on Tywardreath Highway. Officers and staff from Devon and Cornwall Police, VOSA and the DVLA carried out stop checks on vehicles during the day and the results are as follows; 16 prohibitions by VOSA (vehicles seized due to being unfit/unsafe for use on a public highway) 10 OSCO's (Officer Seen Conditional Offer, drivers commiting offences are sent on training courses) 2 Persons reported for driving without insurance 1 radically altered vehicle incorrectly registered   1 Person reported for driving otherwise in accordance with a licence 1 Vehicle SOCAP (seized using police powers) for no insurance Please be aware that checking that your vehicle is roadworthy doesn't have to happen once a year before it's MOT. As a driver you should be checking your vehicle and keeping it in good working order for your safety and the safety of those around you, both other motorists and pedestrians. Regards, St. Blazey Police Team

 

 

it would seem VOSA/DVLA are interested in more than lorry's, another kick in the goolies  for those that say it will never happen

[Archived2]

post from my local police facebook page ( i'm not their friend it was linked to me )

 

For your info; A joint agency operation was carried out on Saturday 25th January 2014 on Tywardreath Highway. Officers and staff from Devon and Cornwall Police, VOSA and the DVLA carried out stop checks on vehicles during the day and the results are as follows; 16 prohibitions by VOSA (vehicles seized due to being unfit/unsafe for use on a public highway) 10 OSCO's (Officer Seen Conditional Offer, drivers commiting offences are sent on training courses) 2 Persons reported for driving without insurance 1 radically altered vehicle incorrectly registered   1 Person reported for driving otherwise in accordance with a licence 1 Vehicle SOCAP (seized using police powers) for no insurance Please be aware that checking that your vehicle is roadworthy doesn't have to happen once a year before it's MOT. As a driver you should be checking your vehicle and keeping it in good working order for your safety and the safety of those around you, both other motorists and pedestrians. Regards, St. Blazey Police Team

 

 

it would seem VOSA/DVLA are interested in more than lorry's, another kick in the goolies  for those that say it will never happen

 

well we knew that things were going to get worse.

 

People are still very keen to bury heads in sand and hope it will fizzle away. I keep hearing "I see no mass exodus of cars through DVLA/VOSA" but in my opinion its all still early days.

 

People will get caught and thats a given. The numbers will increase and thats a given. You are breaking the law by using an incorrectly registered vehicle on the public roads and soon there will be prosecutions.

You hurt someone with your incorrectly registered and un-inspected car and its proven not to be up to the IVA/EU safety standards then you can sit jail. Thats a fact.

(Not scaremongering either) 

 

http://www.dailymail...d-children.html

 

I have built cars in the past and ignored the SVA (tut tut I know) but the computer system back then was farcical and 'monkey see.. monkey do...'. I am now on my fourth IVA (BIVA) as I know of MANY people getting caught and its just not worth the risk.

A few cases have been on forums but nothing drastic. However the staff at my local test centre have said that there has been a large increase of cars being given mandatory inspections after having the registration removed by the DVLA. (getting caught).

[Archived2]

Some poor mini owner going through the mill....

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3cde921523

 

Another mini needing its IVA's or in this case b-iva'd. Still "it'll never happen" eh??

Edited by minihobbymini, 23 March 2014 - 06:56 PM.

[Archived2]

Had a chat with a VOSA inspector/tester the other day.

 

He hinted at things toughening up and said they are already crushing non compliant cars. I asked him to give me examples and he said at the moment they are looking at Limo's that have not had an IVA and are unlicensed.

 

He told me to look on youtube and I found these...

 

 

 

 

They are looking at cars that should have had a test and haven't yet are still in use.

I realise we don't hire out our minis that we've chopped up but we do have mini limo's in the scene and as with all laws they filter down to the little man in the end.

 

Time to stop avoiding the issue and make sure your car is compliant.

 

The law states:

 

"It is an offence to use a vehicle that requires type approval without an Individual Approval Certificate confirming compliance with the type approval requirements"

 

In our case M1 vehicles that have lost type approval compliance by modification to the monocoque structure of the vehicle. I don't need to go into points and reqs here again as its been done further back in the thread.

 

Ive not heard of a modified mini getting crushed but I have seen more and more people getting a tug by DVLA and even roadside checks by VOSA throwing up issues.

 

I would love to be able to do whatever I like to a mini but I agree that the rules are to keep us safe and other road users safe. I would be more than miffed if someone else's shoddy work killed someone I knew etc

Edited by minihobbymini, 02 May 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[Ethel]

That sounds like what I wrote right at the beginning of this topic - bit of a misfire with cut 'n paste?

 

It is what the topic is for though, so doesn't matter who says it, even if we are a good way past concise 

[Archived2]

I think the thread has evolved to give fair and concise information. The mods clear the unwanted posts and leave the factual and helpful information that may effect TMF members etc.

 

I think we are painting a good picture now with easy to follow information and guidance with real world examples.

Edited by minihobbymini, 04 May 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[Captain Mainwaring]

Il carry on letting my dad do my MOTS then!


Anyone in or around Newport/saffron walden who wants a good friendly MOT done, lemme know;)

 

 

I really wouldn't make offers like that....There are people who aren't liberally minded who make think your dad does a dodgy ticket.