259 replies to this topic

[Ethel]

We can at least agree that we are going round in circles.

I'm not being sceptical, I'm just trying to honestly set out the facts so readers can choose whether or not to be sceptical themselves

It's not my place to make choices for people that could have dire consequences, however slight the risk may be. The original intention was that this topic would explain the possible interpretation of the rules and gather together the official information; it wasn't supposed to carry on the discussion, we had lots of the same before I wrote it.

The IVA regulations aren't really the issue, it is what the DVLA will allow you to do to your car before they consider it's no longer the same vehicle and ask for their V5 back. If you like, you can also take in to account, the likelihood that they'll ever be aware of, or bother themselves with considering your car at all.

Parliament made the regulations, and ultimately it'd be down to a court of law, or equivalent authority that has the job of enforcing them, to decide what they mean. Until an enforcement is made what anyone says, including DVLA & VOSA employees, is just opinion. That is why they are loathed to give you straight answers.


I don't think anyone is disputing that there is a 10 year exemption; ten year old cars that continue to be used on the road may well not pass parts of the IVA - so you could argue old cars, that are newly registered for our roads, will be no more dangerous than the ones that are already registered. However, the whole purpose of the IVA test is to assess individually built "one-offs". Few, if any, will be whittled entirely from new materials, so there has to be a point where a home built car ceases to be the donor(s) and becomes a new vehicle in its own right. The DVLA have to decide when that is, as they issue registrations, hence they devised their points system.

Ten year old cars will still have the same pattern of major components (at least to score enough points with the DVLA) that they had 10 years ago. Those that don't aren't ten years old, even if some (or even all) of their components are.

You can't make an antique telly cabinet out of a 100 year old sideboard.

[Archived2]

The ten year rule is wildy misunderstood.

I recommend getting mark vickers to explain it all to you guys.

There have been cases of enforcement and notes are made at mot time (if the inspector can be bothered). I can give examples and cases in specific including from our friend Andy.

I was called a liar and accused of scare mongering when I brought this to light years ago and its still misunderstood so Im not going to explain it again.
Bungle is one of few who does understand but is shunned when he tried to explain it.

If you ignore the IVA and you are in an accident and someone is hurt then you will smoke a turd... Simple (the onus is on you to know the law... no excuses!).
Cut your monocoque or chassis in any way other than repair and its IVA time.. Simple.
Exemptions are hard to get through (read impossible).

Good luck

[Bungle]

http://www.telegraph...assic-cars.html

[Archived2]

Thats a good example of the "historic" specification that was being thrown around by the EU.
The "roadworthiness test" was part of these plans.
ACE has the full info on this.

This however is not linked to the IVA.

Edited by minihobbymini, 21 December 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[M1n1Mad]

Ive just bought so cobra race seats. I want to put 5point harness's in am i able to put the seats and harness in a mini without having to tell the insurance company and be legal also?

[Bungle]

it's a modification you will have to tell your insurance,

 

other than that you just have to pass the MOT once a year

[M1n1Mad]

I checked with my insurance company. £31 extra per year so not too bad.

[MINI MAD RKH]

Oh ok. so insurance costs would go up for a safety feature?

 

 

Yup, as they have (probably correctly) deduced that those that fit a roll cage are significantly more likely to crash.

 

Not necessarily, will depend on your insurance & also the type of cage, on some cars ie: Focus, just a rear cage will sit behind the front passengers so you will not be likely to crack your head on it. I know that my insurers won't charge me any more for having a rear cage in my Focus :)

 

I don't know where a rear cage upper bar will sit in relation to your head in a Mini? :?

 

The way I see is, any car will be safer for the occupants with an FIA/MSA approved cage. But only if it’s fitted correctly, and with approved protective padding fitted in the appropriate places where your body could come in contact with the cage. The protective padding is there as a safety feature for the when helmets are not being worn, such as when you are travelling along public road sections to and from special rally stages, it also protects an expensive piece of kit from getting damaged.


 

Couldn't agree more! And I think to be honest that if 'you'll have provided the means to rapidly decelerate your head,' to the extent that it's going to hit the front bar of a cage two inches or so in front of the top of the windscreen, the accident will have been severe enough that your head is not going to stop before it goes into the screen top rail anyway. I still think that the extra stiffness and structural integrity provided by a full cage (especially with door bars) will inherently make a small tin box like a Mini a bit of a safer place to be - after all, roll cages aren't just for roll-over accidents, they are to try & keep the inegrity of the passenger cell intact, & most race/rally accidents tend to involve hitting solid objects head/rear end on!! And I would aso like to think that our full harnesses will hold us further away from any possible contact with any part of the interior than a standard inertia reel belt would do. And road rally crews don't wear helmets. But it's academic as we have to have the cage for sprints/hillclimbs..!! (And it's just my - laymans - point of view, I'm not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it. Honest!)
 

 

I agree that fitting a rc to a Mini is a safety feature

 

The thing is, it doesn't matter what we think or what you agree with. It's what the insurance underwriters think.

You may be able to convince them that your harnesses will keep you and your passenger away from the added steel tubing (it's usually the tubing along the top of the door they worry about), again that will depend on the individual insurer. Not everyone fitting a cgage will also be fitting harnesses.

 

There is always the 'fitting a full cage may make you feel safer & drive the car faster' thing

[BMC]

Been a while since i have been here haha. Since i was last here i have adopted my stepmums Mini that had been sat on the drive for 5 years so its in need of quite allot of bodywork. Its got a Walbro 225 fuel pump now As for the rollcage thing & people saying about it being more dangerous. Im not a total D**k, It would be padded & i would have proper harnesses & bucket seats because they are safer & more comfortable. The fiberglass front thing and removing more crumple zones wouldn't really be a problem as i'd probably have some form of rollbar from the subframe to the main rollcage anyway a bit like spaceframed cars But for now the car needs a lot of work so stuff like that will wait.

 

Attached Files

•  PICT0006.JPG   53.9K   2 downloads
•  PICT0007.JPG   56.75K   1 downloads
•  PICT0010.JPG   45.8K   1 downloads
•  PICT0009.JPG   31.27K   5 downloads

[mini1955]

hi

 

does this car of mine need an iva test

dvla have refused a v5

thay have had a load of photo's they even said go and mot it

 and tax it if i want to  so now i have a mini with a full m.o.t

full insurance and cannot use it

apart of what you see in the photo the car is as it left the factory

standand 998 ,brakes steering subframes ect are standard

 

any comments

thanks  102_4290.JPG   80.35K   80 downloads

[Archived2]

hi

 

does this car of mine need an iva test

dvla have refused a v5

thay have had a load of photo's they even said go and mot it

 and tax it if i want to  so now i have a mini with a full m.o.t

full insurance and cannot use it

apart of what you see in the photo the car is as it left the factory

standand 998 ,brakes steering subframes ect are standard

 

any comments

thanks102_4290.JPG

 

The monocoque structure has been altered for something other than a like for like repair.

 

Your car will be classed as "radically altered"

 

Sorry but yes an IVA would be required. If the DVLA have refused a V5 then it would seem they think so too. Dont worry too much though. Its not impossible to pass and the people who do the testing take a pragmatic approach to each vehicle. Many of the testers are very helpful and will even offer solutions.

 

You will fail the first test, thats a given. Use the information gained and the help provided from the testers to get your car through the re-test.

 

The IVA isnt cheap but having a modded mini with an IVA pass will actually add value and will also allow you to sell it to anywhere in the EU.

 

Feel free to get in touch as I have done this three times myself.

[mini1955]

 

hi

 

does this car of mine need an iva test

dvla have refused a v5

thay have had a load of photo's they even said go and mot it

 and tax it if i want to  so now i have a mini with a full m.o.t

full insurance and cannot use it

apart of what you see in the photo the car is as it left the factory

standand 998 ,brakes steering subframes ect are standard

 

any comments

thanks102_4290.JPG

 

The monocoque structure has been altered for something other than a like for like repair.

 

Your car will be classed as "radically altered"

 

Sorry but yes an IVA would be required. If the DVLA have refused a V5 then it would seem they think so too. Dont worry too much though. Its not impossible to pass and the people who do the testing take a pragmatic approach to each vehicle. Many of the testers are very helpful and will even offer solutions.

 

You will fail the first test, thats a given. Use the information gained and the help provided from the testers to get your car through the re-test.

 

The IVA isnt cheap but having a modded mini with an IVA pass will actually add value and will also allow you to sell it to anywhere in the EU.

 

Feel free to get in touch as I have done this three times myself.

 

hi thanks for your help on this, looks like it will be next year before i get this one

out for the shows

thanks again

[Bungle]

we have had the first VW reported to VOSA at the MOT for it's modifications

 

http://www.volkszone...ad.php?t=963730

 

 

someone else that thought it would never happen to them

[Midas Mk1]

Scrooge strikes again..

[andy159]

we have had the first VW reported to VOSA at the MOT for it's modifications

 

http://www.volkszone...ad.php?t=963730

 

 

someone else that thought it would never happen to them

  your post on that was number 666 your the vosa devil in disguise lol