391 replies to this topic

[mini_mad69]

but a car that was standard with 53bhp that now has 103 bhp is going to need more than an ultimate engine steady! when my mate built his 1380, his normal insurance company (fleet) wanted an engineers report on it...

I see what your saying, but 1380's arn't too wild, and an ultimate engine steady combined with a well maintained car should be fine, I can see why an insurance company would want an engineers report, just too cover their own backs.

even if you did have a 1380 (i wish i did!) i don't think that will matter. 1380's were always compatible with Mini's. I think these new laws will apply to the guys completely changing whats underneath the Mini shell (RWD conversions, chassis from other cars modified to fit the shell, V8 transplants etc) if you're simply upgrading a 998 to 1275 (which im hoping to do in the near future) or a 1275 to a 1380, it wont change the car as dramatically as the examples above would.

Thats what I was trying to get across, If this new law does come into effect, I personaly don't believe it will. It will not effect 95% of the users of this forum. Most MOT inspectors won't notice the extra core plug and the lack of tappet chest covers on the large bore engine, especialy as they don't even inspect the engine, apart from emmisions. I would like too see official documents from VOSA regarding these new inspections before I believe it.






BEn

[Burnard]

i have to agree with the mistro here.

adding a serious amount of BHP with any modified engine is going to ahve an effect on other parts of the car, it doesnt matter weather its an A series or not.

I personally would get an engeneers report after any serious modifications, because i wouldnt like to be driving something wich isnt safe, although i will admit, im not planning on any serious mods for a while.


Chris

[The_Mistro]

untill a guideline of mods that are deamed dramatic are published, i wont believe it to be true! i mean, changing oil for a different type could be deamed a modification! drilling a couple of holes in the side of the air filter housing is meant to improve performance too!

and CD players, speakers, sub boxes, amps .........

door cards, dashboards, carpets, soundproofing, seat covers......

from 2012 were not allowed to put any of those into new cars!?

Edited by The_Mistro, 13 July 2009 - 11:51 PM.

[Burnard]

what if you change your tyre pressures to other than facotry standerd, or use different tyres?
If you take your mats out that could be deamed as lightening your car for performance purpouses.

just think how rediculous it could get...

[cookie4343]

This is so stupid, i dont no what this world's comeing to.
If this comes into force ill be going mad and sending emails and letters all over the place to stop it, this will also encourage more people to drive without a
valid m.o.t.

whats nexted, have to have a toilet lisence to have a pee, or maybe have to pay to walk on pavements.

[miniman_78]

This law will not only affect you guys but also people over here in belgium. We already have a law like that over here for about 4 or 5 years. The only way there was left for people with kitcars or heavely modded cars (chopped or none original mini engines) was to export it to the uk, get a SVA, register it and import it back to get a SVA here an get it legaly registered. Its expensive but its the only way to do so. So if that law comes that would be the dead of kitcars in Belgium.

We are not even allowed by law to change the wheel size, steering wheel, seats or convert from drum to disc brakes ( or even upgrade the brakes or exhausts without a certificate), put in a front roll cage or change anything on the suspention . Luckely for us minidrivers the people of the MOt are not that used to deal with mini's and don't always see all the moddifications. Downsize on the other hand is they sometimes see mods that aren't even there . If we for example tint the windows or put a bodykit or wide arches on, or even big stereo they mark it now as tuning and we have to pay extra for MOt.

It even happens that the police knows when and where meetings are for tuned cars and they wait at parking lots where they know people come together to travel in a group to the show and they take them to an MOt center to check the cars. They even stop people at the roadside and get a full check if they think something is modded. At the Mot center they can see what kind of brakes, wheels, tyres or suspencion you'll need to have in the computer.

I have friends who are hardcore tuners who only use the cars to go to shows and they need to change a lot of the car to go to the MOt, sometimes that's 3 days of work to convert, get an MOt and convert it back. They even start trailering unregistered cars.
The real bad thing about the law is that there are more and more people who don't get an MOt and drive around without insurance with badly tuned cars and the real passionated tuners with expencive but save cars that are even tuned within the regulations get a bad name from this.

Edited by miniman_78, 14 July 2009 - 02:30 AM.

[Rosslin Racing]

its about the same here as well, if you have a more powerful car and the tester notices he well just say no test and you have to prove that the car is standard, or get it tested at the technical testing center and that costs buckets full.
example:
two years ago the law regarding fibreglass parts on cars was changed, if you have a type approval on the part its ok,( its a number fixed to the part) if not it has to go or be changed.
( that stuffed loads of chavs and minis with zeemax body kits) I was told it was down to the type of fibreglass and the way it splits on impact. but i could get it tested.
so if i paid 200 quid i could have a number for the bodykit if i paid 400 quid i could issue numbers myself!! they did not even smash anything! it just shows it down to money, bit like a protection racket you want it pay me and you can have it!

[garrett3]

This law will not only affect you guys but also people over here in belgium. We already have a law like that over here for about 4 or 5 years. The only way there was left for people with kitcars or heavely modded cars (chopped or none original mini engines) was to export it to the uk, get a SVA, register it and import it back to get a SVA here an get it legaly registered. Its expensive but its the only way to do so. So if that law comes that would be the dead of kitcars in Belgium.

We are not even allowed by law to change the wheel size, steering wheel, seats or convert from drum to disc brakes ( or even upgrade the brakes or exhausts without a certificate), put in a front roll cage or change anything on the suspention . Luckely for us minidrivers the people of the MOt are not that used to deal with mini's and don't always see all the moddifications. Downsize on the other hand is they sometimes see mods that aren't even there . If we for example tint the windows or put a bodykit or wide arches on, or even big stereo they mark it now as tuning and we have to pay extra for MOt.

It even happens that the police knows when and where meetings are for tuned cars and they wait at parking lots where they know people come together to travel in a group to the show and they take them to an MOt center to check the cars. They even stop people at the roadside and get a full check if they think something is modded. At the Mot center they can see what kind of brakes, wheels, tyres or suspencion you'll need to have in the computer.

I have friends who are hardcore tuners who only use the cars to go to shows and they need to change a lot of the car to go to the MOt, sometimes that's 3 days of work to convert, get an MOt and convert it back. They even start trailering unregistered cars.
The real bad thing about the law is that there are more and more people who don't get an MOt and drive around without insurance with badly tuned cars and the real passionated tuners with expencive but save cars that are even tuned within the regulations get a bad name from this.

The law you have is the very same law being pushed through here.

I dare'nt post this up for fear of more slating and *yellow human water* taking but thankyou for pointing this out.

[ferrit]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but here was the latest version of the IVA test manual I could find

IVA Manual for Cat M1 Vehicles

Page 9 carries the most pertinent classes that could be applied to modded minis

c. Amateur built
A vehicle is classed as an amateur built vehicle if:
(a) the vehicle was constructed, assembled or having previously been registered under the 1994 Act, structurally modified, for the personal use of a person ® who is a relevant individual
and
(b) the whole, or a substantial part, of the construction, assembly or modification was carried out by R, by one or more relevant individuals acting on behalf, and under the direction of R or by R and one or more relevant individuals acting on behalf, and under the direction of R.

OR

e. Vehicles manufactured using parts of a registered vehicle
A vehicle that:-
is constructed or assembled by a person carrying on a business in the course of which motor vehicles are normally constructed or assembled.
is equipped with an engine which has previously been used as the engine of another vehicle which had been a registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 or any earlier Act
is equipped with one or more of the following components taken from the same vehicle as the engine - chassis, body, suspension, transmission, steering assembly, an axle


Alternatively it could be this class

f. Rebuilt vehicle
a vehicle that:-
is a previously UK registered vehicle to which the SoS is required by regulation to assigned a VIN, and does not fall into the definition of an "Amateur built" or "Vehicle manufactured using parts of a registered vehicle" and has been rebuilt using a replacement chassis or integral chassis/body which is of the same design and construction as that of the original vehicle and which was supplied for the purpose without having been previously used, or previously formed part of a registered vehicle. Evidence will be required to meet this definition.

Now if I read this corretly you need to be carrying out some quite significant moddifications or a pracitically a ground up rebuild using a new shell (see class f). Am i correct in this assumption?

[Pauly]

How can this be policed? I bet there are 100's of 1000's of modded cars, its one of the biggest industrys in the country, just another way for mr brown and his money pinching, country draining team to grab our cash.

The test stations will be chaos, then they will moan that the laws are too tight and they cant shift the cars though quick enough.

I would of thought that cars with major mods to the chassis/structure of the car would need this IVA, if you retain the original chassis structure you would be fine? Thats how I see it, im looking at it like an SVA but tighter and the only minis ive known to go through an SVA/IVA are z cars minis?

Laws and regs just baffle me .

Paul.

[CMcB]

I think you are all being really out of order to Garrett3. I know him a little bit and he has produced some top quality modded feature cars and he has obviously come on here and shared some privileged info to help you all out and you have jumped on him like a pack of wolves demanding documentation.

A friendly forum????? What is happening to TMF??

Not every government proposal actually gets actioned so there is a fair chance it might not be come to be, but thats no reason to harrang Shaun for giving you a well intentioned heads up. It may be hearsay at the moment, but that doesnt mean its not true! And even if turns out not to be true, the original post was well intentioned and meant to help and look what's happened. I think it's disgusting and pathetic.

[bert998]

I agree, people need to realise the difference between a proposal and what is actually enforced, or going to be. The whole i.d. card scenario is a perfect example of a such similar story.

Chill your beans and keep your toys in the pimped out pram.

[cap'n crunch]

I think you are all being really out of order to Garrett3. I know him a little bit and he has produced some top quality modded feature cars and he has obviously come on here and shared some privileged info to help you all out and you have jumped on him like a pack of wolves demanding documentation.

A friendly forum????? What is happening to TMF??

Not every government proposal actually gets actioned so there is a fair chance it might not be come to be, but thats no reason to harrang Shaun for giving you a well intentioned heads up. It may be hearsay at the moment, but that doesnt mean its not true! And even if turns out not to be true, the original post was well intentioned and meant to help and look what's happened. I think it's disgusting and pathetic.

But Hear say is no reason to make claims that cannot be backed up with evidence. By all means say watch out this may happen, but not this will happen there is nothing you can do, all minis will be gone.

We ARE grateful that Garrett3 has brought this to our attention so we can find out what could potentially happen, and who it may affect. But you cannot blame us for wanting more evidence and proof this is what may happen. At the moment, it is just Scare Mongering getting our collective backs up. We are bound to want more evidence peoples pride and joy that they have spent many hours and days toiling over could be defunct and useless, so do not be suprised by the reaction we are just very passionate.

Once again thank you for bringing it to our attention, but don't jump out of the debate the second somebody disagrees.

We all want the same thing here, a future for minis and modifying.

[garrett3]

Garrett dude.

If your so highly regarded and the info is on the net, then why cant you link the two together and post the documents that confirm what your saying.

You make me laugh mate. You seem to want people to respect you for this information youve provided, but you cant provide the documents to confirm it from VOSA themselves.

Jordie

Right let put money where the mouth is...

http://www.transport...senger-Cars.pdf

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

The obove are people fighting for us.. look theough the whole site for lots of info.

Not enough for you is it? So heres more:

This number is that for the technical support for IVA and miodified vehicles that will be affected by the IVA.

This is a direct number! 01792 454 256

So here it is in black and white.

big honda engined minis with uprated brakes/suspension and subframes etc = IVA
Shorties = IVA
Large body kits that alter the vehicle apprearnce and monocoque structure = IVA
Body/chassis mods = IVA
Road going rally prep cars that have alteres brakes/suspension, engine, drive train, harnesses etc etc etc = may = IVA depending on points sytem
This can go on and on but as Im such a liar I will stop here lol

THE MINI CANNOT PASS AN IVA (maybe a B IVA with alot of work and effort)

Why I hear you ask?

THE IVA IS TESTED TO 2009 EU STANDARDS and you may need proof of conformity paperwork.
That even includes the glass! I kid you not..

The body on a mini is not externally protective,they do not have compliant seatbelt anchorages, they do not have collapsable steering coulmns etc etc etc

Its all in black and white

As for the MOT inspectors role.. I should have made this clearer that this is a proposal BUT this is part of the law in the other countries where the above is law already.
Inside info has said this will be easily passed and will be in effect soon (around 2012)
For this part I appologise for a slight missrepresentaion of the facts.

(UPDATE this is in effect now but not as a "tick box" system, its a report system)

The above WILL mean that your mot inspector may report your car for not being presenter as the V5 describes it, DVLA may then forward you for an IVA should your car not meet the rules set out in this new legislation.

Your car cannot pass the IVA as it currently stands without huge costs to bring the car to 2009 standards (far more than would be a reasonable amount both in work and costs) .. But again DONT TRUST MY WORD, call them...
01792 454 256

If I have been missinformed by either the DVLA or ACE or GOMO and you have better information please do post but try not to rubbish me without fair trial.

Cheers

Thankyou

Edited by garrett3, 20 July 2009 - 06:36 PM.

[Ethel]

I disagree,

Any reasonable person would expect such a momentous claim to be backed up by corroborating evidence before they start the mad panic to sell off their big wheels and turbos etc.

It's not clear from the info Garrett supplied (and has since chosen to remove, denying people the opportunity to make their own judgment) why his friend's V5 was seized. I am pretty certain it has nothing to do with legislation that he claims doesn't take effect until 2012.

My suspicion is that the issue was over proving the vehicles identity not any modifications.


I can't see any point in contributing anything more to a discussion where people exercise self censorship, reminds me too much of Monty Python sketches.