391 replies to this topic

[Ethel]

What's depressing is the apparent rigour of the system. There seems no option of: turn up with the car for a test, tester says "don't like that" you change it and come back for a pass.

That is indeed a killer blow.

That's not quite the case. The DVLA identity bit is a one shot pass or fail affair, though you can appeal that the tester applied the rules wrongly ( for the Human Rights Act again). If you fail the DVLA bit you have an unregistered car that you can present for as many IVA's as you like, or until your wallet runs dry

I think we should look at condensing Garrett 'n Craig's excellent graft into a sticky, it'd be good if that also included the experiences of anyone who does put their Mini through IVA or, god forbid, gets pulled by the DVLA.

[Deathrow]

This worries me alot.

I've been working towards putting a fiberglass flip front on my car for nearly a year now but now this has come up I don't know what to do.

I wonder what view would be placed on a car that has had it's steel wings and front panel removed and had them replaced with fiberglass which has been bonded in to place where it would have been welded originally.

Also, all this "in isolation" what does that mean? Does it mean I can get away with change just my brakes, if thats all I change? Does that mean we are all now limited to having a single modification per car?

If it was a case of just the front end which would be raising an eye brow in my car, naturally I would strongly consider replacing the front with metal again. However if the rules also state I can change my brakes OR suspension OR wheels instead of being able to change my brakes for better ones AND my suspension for adjustable stuff then it questions my entire project and makes me think I've spent the last 12 months wasting god knows how much money.

I also agree that an IVA, if required in these instances should only test the modifications placed on the car, it's not fair to test the standard items unless they intend to pull every single Mini from the roads and IVA them all (which lets be honest, with our government, is probably the next step in making our lives miserable). But naturally, I don't expect my views to be heard.

[mike.]

Well they took their time but VOSA have finally replied to my enquiry.

Here it is, straight from VOSA themselves:

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 13 th July 2009, concerning the
above.

There is a requirement to notify your insurance company of any
modifications and DVLA if the vehicle has been radically modified in
accordance with the details on their web-site. As far as the MOT is
concerned we are not aware of any plans to make changes of this nature.

Regards
Mike.

VOSA Contact Centre

[Deathrow]

It's like reading through blacked out glass at the moment isn't it.

[Jordie]

Well they took their time but VOSA have finally replied to my enquiry.

Here it is, straight from VOSA themselves:

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 13 th July 2009, concerning the
above.

There is a requirement to notify your insurance company of any
modifications and DVLA if the vehicle has been radically modified in
accordance with the details on their web-site. As far as the MOT is
concerned we are not aware of any plans to make changes of this nature.

Regards
Mike.

VOSA Contact Centre

Thanks for that.

I posted that information when this topic kicked off, I was simply ignored and people still commented on the MOT Tester informing the DVLA/VOSA of modifications using the Computerized MOT System.

This is not going to happen.

As ive said before. All vehicles are tested as presented. If you turn up with a Z-cars rwd bike engine mini, with a logbook which matches the vehicle. It will be tested as an MOT and all of the engine etc is tested within MOT guidelines and regs.

The information at the start of the MOT test, usually printed onto the blue MOT sheets the MOT testers use will contain information of the vehicle which was presented for test. If this information does not match the vehicle, the MOT tester can refuse to test the vehicle and abort the test. This does NOT inform VOSA/DVLA.

[CMcB]

Where a vehicle is notified to the DVLA as being modified (by either an MoT
inspection or owner notification) there are two basic considerations:

Mark Vickers Eng Tech MSOE MIRTE
Technical Officer
Approvals
Passenger Cars & Light Goods Vehicles
Vehicle & Operator Services Agency
Department for Transport."

Well they took their time but VOSA have finally replied to my enquiry.

Here it is, straight from VOSA themselves:

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 13 th July 2009, concerning the
above.

There is a requirement to notify your insurance company of any
modifications and DVLA if the vehicle has been radically modified in
accordance with the details on their web-site. As far as the MOT is
concerned we are not aware of any plans to make changes of this nature.

Regards
Mike.

VOSA Contact Centre

Minimadmike, firstly, what was your query - as it is not included in the reply - and who is Mike - what is his position?

As you can see from the response from Mark (also from VOSA), he clearly feels MoT testers will be informing the DVLA.

[CMcB]

This is not going to happen.

As ive said before. All vehicles are tested as presented. If you turn up with a Z-cars rwd bike engine mini, with a logbook which matches the vehicle. It will be tested as an MOT and all of the engine etc is tested within MOT guidelines and regs.

The information at the start of the MOT test, usually printed onto the blue MOT sheets the MOT testers use will contain information of the vehicle which was presented for test. If this information does not match the vehicle, the MOT tester can refuse to test the vehicle and abort the test. This does NOT inform VOSA/DVLA.

Doesnt mean the rules wont change Jordie. I'm sure you're not privvy to all of the plans VOSA and the DVLA have instore for us.

If you wish to argue the toss with the person who provided the information in the first place you are more than welcome. Perhaps you could use you priviledged knowledge to help clear up this situation. Give Mark a call and explain your side, and perhaps we will all be wiser afterwards.

[Jordie]

I dont need to ring anyone or argue anything.

I am in good contact with VOSA and I believe what I am told. I dont need to ring some bloke because you tell me he knows everything. VOSA is a big organisation

All ive ever discussed in this topic is the MOT side of things. I dont care about putting a car through for IVA, as it does not interest me at this point. However running a MOT station and HGV inspection lane, I am keen to make sure I know whats happening with this side of things. Speaking directly to the VOSA Mot operation side, there are no plans for a major system change or update, nor to modify the system to allow reporting to the DVLA/VOSA.

[CMcB]

I dont need to ring anyone or argue anything.

I am in good contact with VOSA and I believe what I am told. I dont need to ring some bloke because you tell me he knows everything. VOSA is a big organisation

I'm sorry but if you are not prepared to put your reasoning or evidence in black and white (as you demanded at the beginning of this thread) then why should anyone believe you?

I am not saying he knows everything, who does - you?, I am saying if you have the knowledge to question what he tells us then you should be willing to discuss the odds with him and provide some clarity to the 7000 people who have read this topic. Which you are clearly not willing to do.

[Jordie]

I cannot provide a telephone call. I think my work and VOSA would have something to say.

You've had it confirmed again by mini mad mike, who contacted VOSA through his own method, rather then contacting the one same guy from a massive organisation.

basically, you can believe or not believe it. I suggest you contact someone other then the guy to confirm the MOT changes.

I have tried to inform you but its upto you to believe it or not. I have no reason to post false information regarding the MOT system.

Im not saying I know everything, no....I am giving you information I recieved as part of my contact with VOSA through my job. Direct contact with vosa from a MOT station......I wont bother posting again, i'll let you worry about nothing and I'll look forward to the MOT system changes if they ever happen.

[garrett3]

Jordie, You have tried to pull this apart from the start, You asked for facts.. you got them.
You asked for proof... you got it.
You asked for yet more proof... you got it.
You asked for black and white evidence you got it, yet you are still argueing that you know better than VOSA/DVLA and the governing body that represents the laws coming in form the EU.

You had a chance at a fair arguement, All I can can now see is you trying to confuse people with your OPINION and not backing anything you have stated with hard evidence.

You made everyone jump through hoops so now its your turn to prove your facts.

Sorry madmike but "mike" isnt a VOSA/DVLA type response as all responses have to be done in such a way to cover the information provided through a checkable verifiable return path.

No-one from DVLA would answer a mail with just "mike"

Can you ask MIKE his place withing VOSA/DVLA and his ability to give out information regarding this matter? If it really is from someone within DVLA/VOSA then they are obviously not sure of the information provided and thats why they have made any return path to the information uncheckable.

Jordie as for you trying to pull Mark Vickers information apart.. you need to do some homework mate. He is at the forefront of this and not just a pencil pusher.

Craig is doing top work trying to help people, why make his life difficult?

Edited by garrett3, 24 July 2009 - 04:18 PM.

[mike.]

My original enquiry was this:

Hello

I am a member of an online forum, for the classic mini. Recently, another member has delivered some news about some changes due to be made to the 2012 MOT.

The member said his info was from a very trust worthy source, and that we should all take it on board, however he could offer no further info or proof of these allegations from a reputable source such as the DVLA or VOSA.

He was stating that by 2012, the MOT tester will be required to tick a box on the MOT form if the vehicle has been modified. He said things like engine/brake/suspension modifications and conversions as well as things like bodykits and wheels, would be classed as modifications. He then said that once this box is ticked your vehicle is required to be subjected to the new IVA test. He said that the DVLA will suspend you registration and seize your V5 document, until your vehicle has passed an IVA test. Ofcourse, he said all costs of the IVA must be covered by the owner of the vehicle.

The main point being, that a classic mini (or in fact any other classic car, and a huge number of modified cars) will be unable to pass the tests carried out in the IVA. Not necessarily because the car is not roadworthy, but simply because older cars do not have the safety features required to pass an IVA. He also stated that all cars registered on or after 2012, will no longer be 'aloud' to be modified in anyway.

So, i'm asking if you can confirm these statements are correct. If they are, could you point me in the direction of or provide me with some more information about these new regulations?

If they're not, are they're any other changes proposed which are similar to these statements?

Thanks

Michael.


That might not be totally accurate to what garret said in the first place, but i covered most of the point that were said.

And here was the reply i got:

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 13 th July 2009, concerning the
above.

There is a requirement to notify your insurance company of any
modifications and DVLA if the vehicle has been radically modified in
accordance with the details on their web-site. As far as the MOT is
concerned we are not aware of any plans to make changes of this nature.

Regards
Mike.

VOSA Contact Centre
Customer Directorate
Tel: 0300 123 9000

Don't know who mike is, but that what hes said...

[garrett3]

There are no plans for the 2012 mot to be changed, The question you have asked as you have said does not cover what we are trying to state.

You have a fair reply to the question asked but its not really relevant.

I appreciate you are trying to help but Mark Vickers really is at the frontline of the IVA system and what he has told us is correct.

The MOT system will remain the same (no tick boxes as was first talked about) we have covered this within the thread BUT was is happening is "education" for the MOT inspectors/testers to notify if the car does not match the DVLA descrption. (Maybe why Jordie has no information regarding this?)

As Jordie rightly said at present they can refuse a test but with plans to "educate" this will evolve into a reporting process.

Your car must be as described on the V5 and again as Jordie has said if it matches the CAR then no worries but if you turn up in a heavily modded mini thats got so many parts changed its deemed to no longer be the same car thst the registration was given to then it will need an IVA.

This is for the MODDERS out there (most mini owners lol) but dont think this is for the wheels and arches brigade, its not.

Its just a heads up to people who are going to build heavily modded cars so they know NOW how to build them with IVA in mind.
Rebuilt cars can also suffer the same type IVA.


We are trying to help, not scare. But again go direct to MARK VICKERS for your questions, its his job to answer this stuff, A dvla phone goon on general enquiries may give missleading advice. Go straight to the top for info... we have

Edited by garrett3, 27 July 2009 - 11:28 AM.

[Jordie]

Please can you educate me in the reporting process. Such as who will we (we as in testers and station operators) notify and how?

[garrett3]

Please can you educate me in the reporting process. Such as who will we (we as in testers and station operators) notify and how?

I dont want to give any missleading advice so I would reccomend contacting Mark Vickers as noted earlier.

The information is within this thread but he will be able to direct you better than I can and can give you information for your centre to follow up.

Thanks