391 replies to this topic

[1275 SPRITE]

Why will a mini fail an IVA test as you keep saying?
Personally I don't think any of this is going to progress from just talk on a forum, I can't see this "modified tick box" appearing on the MOT computer.

[Jordie]

Because the IVA is tested at current 2009 EU regulations.

So if a mini becomes subject to it, it needs things like collaspable steering coloumn. A standard mini steering coloumn doesnt do this, so would be one fail straight away.

Just like if you built a kit car now, you would need to follow a strict book of guidelines to pass the IVA.

Jordie

[dsgoody]

Just seen this thread. I really can't help but feel that these changes are being pushed through a bit underhand as they are not widely publicized, and some people are still debating if it will happen or not.

This WILL take most Mini enthusiasts cars of the road that are highly modified, as most don't have xx amount of pounds to spend on a IVA test. *EDIT* That it will fail.

Edited by dsgoody, 14 July 2009 - 05:45 PM.

[1275 SPRITE]

Oh right, thanks.

So if its to 2009 EU regulations, technically nearly all cars made before 2009 will fail as they aren't upto the latest regulations? (if subjected to an IVA test)

[mini93]

Because the IVA is tested at current 2009 EU regulations.

So if a mini becomes subject to it, it needs things like collaspable steering coloumn. A standard mini steering coloumn doesnt do this, so would be one fail straight away.

Just like if you built a kit car now, you would need to follow a strict book of guidelines to pass the IVA.

Jordie

previous sva had to do this aswell didnt they? there was a guy on here who got a new reg in 07 was it? to do that he put in a steering column that was colapsable...people should stop saying "there's no way of passing it" load of rubbish, just requires some ingenuity, if you havent got that you shouldnt be modifying any car to any extent anyway

[CMcB]

Oh right, thanks.

So if its to 2009 EU regulations, technically nearly all cars made before 2009 will fail as they aren't upto the latest regulations? (if subjected to an IVA test)

I think it might affect Minis more because they are more regularly modified (to the extent we modify them) than most other cars. The 50 year old design puts it at a major disadvantage on these tests if you compare other modded cars (corsas, clios, astras - all a lot more modern) and other classic cars tend to be kept more standardised.

I think the main issue is working out what will justify an IVA because that will be a real pain. if it means stuff like coilovers (just as an example) are ruled out then i guess no one will be buying them??? its still new legislation so we're gonna have to see what happens, but i am enquiring to try and find out.

Jordie, the phone number is to VOSA - the guy I spoke to - the IVA technical officer. nice chap will tell you all you want to know.

Craig

[Jordie]

Yes thats correct. There are ways it could pass by fitting modern/custom/one off parts.

[garrett3]

a friend of mine has just bought this one




do you think it's classed as modified ?

Hey Bungle thats awesome! do love a rodded beetle!

Prob in for a fun ride with that if DVLA get hold of it.

Blank out the plates on the forum

Edited by garrett3, 14 July 2009 - 06:35 PM.

[garrett3]

Yes thats correct. There are ways it could pass by fitting modern/custom/one off parts.

yes thats true.

Just keep in mind if you roof chop your mini and alter its monocoque body then it will have to have an IVA.

Then you have all the fun of making one of steering columns etc etc etc

its not just the mods you have to get checked its the whole car and as a standard mini cannot pass the IVA. be carefull...

So before you start that shortie project youve longed for "think" about this thread and what this could mean to you.

The IVA is here now.. This is not a scam or ring email, Unfortunately its fact and its going to be enforced unlike its predecessor (spelling?) the SVA.
This will be enforced MOT time (not yet but will be in place by 2012) You can get this clarified easily through the people like ACE who fight the people trying to ruin all our modded fun.

Im sorry if Ive badly explained some of this... I'm just a petrol head and not a great book writer or something.

The fact is things like shorties and limos etc etc could be a thing of the past at mini shows... very soon.

Edited by garrett3, 14 July 2009 - 06:43 PM.

[GreaseMonkey]

a friend of mine has just bought this one




do you think it's classed as modified ?

Hey Bungle thats awesome! do love a rodded beetle!

Prob in for a fun ride with that if DVLA get hold of it.

Blank out the plates on the forum

I agree, has a good numberplate as well!!

[dave21478]

Jesus fecking christ.

[blunt]

Back on page 8, I posted a link to this thread...

http://retrorides.pr...?...1576&page=1

Read it.
Read all of it.
Thoroughly.
DO NOT skim the first few pages and jump to whatever conclusions you fancy.
The facts are there as presented by a member from the-ace.org.

the-ace are a body who back modified car enthusiasts and have the power to lobby at governmental levels. They do actually know what they are talking about.

The thread is 16 or so pages long. if you dont want to/cant be bothered with reading it all, then please refrain from posting guesswork and rumors untill you have done.

As quite rightly mentioned in that thread, please dont go starting petitions and writing angry letter to dvla about this. the ace are working on your behalf already and dozens of folk with innacurate petitions and advice starting rumours all over the internet will do more harm than good.



Anyone who says a mini cant pass IVA is talking *poop poop*. Already, several heavilly modified cars have passed, and countless numbers are currently being built with a aim to passing. Have a look on the NHRA forums for build details. If they can get a shat-look rod with an open V8 and suicide doors through, then a vtec mini is not going to have problems.

If you are genuinely interested in this, as opposed to just spouting conjecture for the sake of hearing your own voice, then please read that thread fully, learn and understand the facts for yourself, and you will see that there is little to worry about.

[/blunt]

[huntface]

Good thread dave.

I've been mulling this over since the original post last night and initially I was horrified.

I've grown up around modified cars (mainly TR7s) and I view it as my right of passage to get a massive amount of beans from my mini.

Then again, the cars I've grown up with have been professional conversions. And any DIY/home jobs have been done by my brother who is a qualified mechanical engineer with 15 years experience in car restoration.

I'm sure there are plenty of cars on the road that really aren't safe that have been knocked together in a shed by a bloke with a book and couple of spanners. But equally I'm sure the majority of home restos are to a very good standard.

To be honest, if I was brave enough to do a large modification and didn't have the supervision of my bro, then I think i'd welcome an expert IVA, to check I wasn't a danger to myself or others.

You only need to look at that horrific case with the guy and his modified 4x4 who killed his kids last year to see the rational behind putting a check in place.

[Se7enS1ns]

I'll worry about it when / if this magic button appears a the MOT station.

For the record, I'm the only male in my family who isn't directly / professionally involved in the Motor trade, and there are a fair few of us! I've mention this thread to a couple of them, and have a range of responses from "load of tripe" to one saying nothing has really changed. The only thing that has changed is where cars should by all rights have gone through an SVA (home growns) will now be herded into an IVA.

I mentioned this magic button to an MOT inspector family member, who replied "first I've heard of it, and I hear a lot a carp". He did go on to raise a very good point, that as a MOT tester, he is not expected to hold an encyclopaedia like knowledge of the manufacture specifications of every car ever made, so how is he supposed to spot a less than obvious modification? He also went on to say that they are not allowed to so much as lift a carpet up, let alone take a cylinder head off, so how is he supposed to spot any workings of the engine?

We spoke about this for all of 5 minutes before he once again dismissed me a gullible, and even though I remain open to conclusion, he had a point.

Personally, I hope this is nothing more than a cat amongst the pigeons. There's barely a standard part remaining on my car, the 'modifications' fall into categories of cosmetic, structural, performance and safety. I haven't changed insurance companies in 5 years as it'll take me a week to even remember all the parts / works not of standard specification, let alone write them all down and inform the DVLA. All they currently know is the change of body colour, engine size and number, and the change of number of seats (declared and registered as a two seater)

Anyway, like I say, I'll worry about it, or not, come this magic button

[Jordie]

I'll worry about it when / if this magic button appears a the MOT station.

I mentioned this magic button to an MOT inspector family member, who replied "first I've heard of it, and I hear a lot a carp". He did go on to raise a very good point, that as a MOT tester, he is not expected to hold an encyclopaedia like knowledge of the manufacture specifications of every car ever made, so how is he supposed to spot a less than obvious modification? He also went on to say that they are not allowed to so much as lift a carpet up, let alone take a cylinder head off, so how is he supposed to spot any workings of the engine?

Anyway, like I say, I'll worry about it, or not, come this magic button

I agree with that, It would mean major changes to the MOT procedure.

Presently, if a car is presented for a MOT inspection, it is tested as it is presented. Aslong as everything is within the tolerances of the MOT guidelines, it will pass. Currently it doesn't matter if it is running drum brakes when built and fiesta disc brakes for example when presented for test. Aslong as whatever is fitted is working within the tolerances of the MOT manual/guidelines, then its a pass.

[Spud21]

Seems like it should only effect serious mods if applied with common sense (sadly this when it comes to government agencies is well pretty much non existant) it should do no harm, i'm not entirely sure i like the vagueness of it though, what is a major mod, is it restricted to physically chopping the Chassis or would fitting brand new subframes and brake assemblies to a heavily repaired shell mean it's would come under the modified bracket, or would the fact that you haven't chopped up the Chassis be enough for it to still be the same car ? Or will it be at the discression of whoever happens to look at your car to decide what is heavily modified or not leaving plenty of room for inconsistencies ?

But it seems on the face of it to make sense, if you chop up a car then i think it's reasonable for that car to have extensive checks to ensure it's safe to us on the road, and as i've read it it's like the SVA and is going to be a one off inspection which once you have one unless you decide to cop it again you will not have to repeat the process as i'm guessing you get some sort of certificate when you have one of these tests done to show it's been done so if necessary you con produce it at a later date.

I can't entirely see why things like uprated breaks and suspension would in any way be included as better brakes surely improve the saftey of the car, and drivig would be a little safer if all our cars had high performance brakes as they work better. The thing that the DVLA need to be careful of is being too draconian as it will just mean that there will be lots of illegally modded cars on the road, we have enough young people driving without insurance because of the extortionate prices charged by insurance companies, we don't need more people driving on our roads illegally.

The only thing i particularly take issue with this is that it's yet another comletely misdirected attempt to improve road safety, if we taught people to drive properly in the first lace then the roads would be infinately safer than they are, rather than having the sheer amount of muppets that are clearly incapable of handling their cars because they are taught how to trundle around to pass a driving test that has about as much bearing on real world driving as reading a book about fine cheeses, there would be a significant reduction in accidents and road deaths and injuries. Bad driving causes the vast majority iirc in a report 98% of all accidents are caused by driver error and thats the real issue on our roads.