10 replies to this topic

[the.grizzle]

Hey all,

Lately my battery has really been struggling and ive had to recharge it twice in the past month to actually get my car to start?

Ive got a Rover MINI Racing 1989' and ive just replaced the current engine earth strap with a new one and it seems to have helped but not solved it completely. I know this question has probably been asked before but i cant find it anywhere, but where should the earth strap go? Mine currently goes from one end of the engine top mount to the other, but this seems a bit strange.

I have a 1275 metro conversion, but i remember reading somewhere that the strap should go from somewhere on the gearbox casing to the subby?

so im slightly confused about where it should be and have a slight feeling it may not be doing its job... Any suggestions?

Thanks All

Ahmet.

[Cooperman]

I run all mine from the clutch cover bolt nearest to the starter motor housing to a point on the inner LH front wing.
Make sure you have a good bare metal patch when bolting on and check also the battery earth strap in the boot. One of mine was very dodgy and I kept on thinking my battery was on the way out until I changed the strap.

[spiguy]

I run all mine from the clutch cover bolt nearest to the starter motor housing to a point on the inner LH front wing.
Make sure you have a good bare metal patch when bolting on and check also the battery earth strap in the boot. One of mine was very dodgy and I kept on thinking my battery was on the way out until I changed the strap.

Basically, you can put an engine earth strap anywhere - as long as it goes between the engine and the body, and you have a decent sized conductor and attachment to good clean metal at both ends. My original one from the engine steady to the bulkhead (the one you describe as going from one end to the other) fell to bits, but it was much easier to put a new one on between the inner wing and the front end of the steady bracket.

Make sure that your battery earth lead is good where it attaches to the boot floor - this is a common rust point, and might be your problem.

By the way, the reason for the original strap going from one end of the steady arm to the other, is that one end is bolted to the engine block, and the other is bolted to the body at the bulkhead, thus connecting the engine to the body and so in turn battery earth. I suspect you find it odd because you are thinking that the engine steady bar is metal and so why do you need the strap? Reason is that there are rubber bushes in each end of the steady arm, so the actual arm itself is largely electrically insulated from engine and body.

[the.grizzle]

Thanks cooperman, when you say i run 'ALL' of mine, do you have more than one then?

And as i dont, would it be worth me purchasing another one to put from the clutch casing to the inner wing then?

Sorry to be a pest, i just want to find out why it struggles without having to replace the battery and alternator.

Thanks again.

[Cooperman]

Sorry grizzle, I meant all of my Minis. We seem to have 3 here at present between my Grandson and me. My 1964 Cooper 'S' trally car, his 1061 cc Mayfair with lots of nice bits on it and a 1966 Mini 850 which is under restoration. I also have another Cooper 'S' which is here for an engine re-build, but that should be gone by mid-week next week.
However, I have seen some rally Minis with a second earth cable from the engine to the battery, although I've never really seen the need for it so long as the earth points you use are good and have excellent contact capabilities.
I once had an earth cable come off from the engine to the body. The next time I tried to start it it eartherd through the choke cable and throttle cable. The throttle cable outer melted - not good!

[the.grizzle]

Sorry double post...

Edited by the.grizzle, 15 June 2009 - 09:44 PM.

[the.grizzle]

I run all mine from the clutch cover bolt nearest to the starter motor housing to a point on the inner LH front wing.
Make sure you have a good bare metal patch when bolting on and check also the battery earth strap in the boot. One of mine was very dodgy and I kept on thinking my battery was on the way out until I changed the strap.

Basically, you can put an engine earth strap anywhere - as long as it goes between the engine and the body, and you have a decent sized conductor and attachment to good clean metal at both ends. My original one from the engine steady to the bulkhead (the one you describe as going from one end to the other) fell to bits, but it was much easier to put a new one on between the inner wing and the front end of the steady bracket.

Make sure that your battery earth lead is good where it attaches to the boot floor - this is a common rust point, and might be your problem.

By the way, the reason for the original strap going from one end of the steady arm to the other, is that one end is bolted to the engine block, and the other is bolted to the body at the bulkhead, thus connecting the engine to the body and so in turn battery earth. I suspect you find it odd because you are thinking that the engine steady bar is metal and so why do you need the strap? Reason is that there are rubber bushes in each end of the steady arm, so the actual arm itself is largely electrically insulated from engine and body.

Sorry Carlukemini, your post didnt appear when i pressed reply, i can understand why you thought that was my confusion, but that wasnt it haha.

I know why it was in that position, but it just seemed like a bit of a strange place to have it. I do realise that the rubber bushes would have stopped it being a contact point but i just remembered it being written somewhere that it was from the gearbox casing to the sub-frame, so i was wondering if this was a poor place to have the earth strap, thus being the cause of my poor starting.

So i think ill give coopermans position a try to see if there is any improvement.

Ps. Thanks for clearing that up cooper man, i managed to confuse myself a bit there.

So one earth strap should be sufficient then?

EDIT: ps2. Also my engine drops revs when i turn the lights on, so will i need a new alternator?

Thanks guys, sorry to be a pest.

Edited by the.grizzle, 15 June 2009 - 09:46 PM.

[spiguy]

I run all mine from the clutch cover bolt nearest to the starter motor housing to a point on the inner LH front wing.
Make sure you have a good bare metal patch when bolting on and check also the battery earth strap in the boot. One of mine was very dodgy and I kept on thinking my battery was on the way out until I changed the strap.

Basically, you can put an engine earth strap anywhere - as long as it goes between the engine and the body, and you have a decent sized conductor and attachment to good clean metal at both ends. My original one from the engine steady to the bulkhead (the one you describe as going from one end to the other) fell to bits, but it was much easier to put a new one on between the inner wing and the front end of the steady bracket.

Make sure that your battery earth lead is good where it attaches to the boot floor - this is a common rust point, and might be your problem.

By the way, the reason for the original strap going from one end of the steady arm to the other, is that one end is bolted to the engine block, and the other is bolted to the body at the bulkhead, thus connecting the engine to the body and so in turn battery earth. I suspect you find it odd because you are thinking that the engine steady bar is metal and so why do you need the strap? Reason is that there are rubber bushes in each end of the steady arm, so the actual arm itself is largely electrically insulated from engine and body.

Sorry Carlukemini, your post didnt appear when i pressed reply, i can understand why you thought that was my confusion, but that wasnt it haha.

I know why it was in that position, but it just seemed like a bit of a strange place to have it. I do realise that the rubber bushes would have stopped it being a contact point but i just remembered it being written somewhere that it was from the gearbox casing to the sub-frame, so i was wondering if this was a poor place to have the earth strap, thus being the cause of my poor starting.

So i think ill give coopermans position a try to see if there is any improvement.

Ps. Thanks for clearing that up cooper man, i managed to confuse myself a bit there.

So one earth strap should be sufficient then?

EDIT: ps2. Also my engine drops revs when i turn the lights on, so will i need a new alternator?

Thanks guys, sorry to be a pest.

No worries grizzle. my revs drop too, though only a bit, maybe 50RPM or so. I wouldnt really worry about that if your alternator is managing to keep the battery charged up day to day, even when you are using lights etc alot. What's your idle speed anyway? maybe you are just skating around the point where the alternator output drops off.

make sure your fan belt is nice and tight too mind you. My first mini I bought in Kilmarnock (in the rain, at night - not the best conditions to buy a car, especially a mini!!!) which is about a 30-40 mile drive home. By the time I got back, I switched off and it wouldnt start again - battery was flat. I ran around for a week with a backup battery in the car, convinced the alternator was goosed until someone told me to check the fan belt. I thought it couldnt be because it had never made even the slightest squeel. But, right enough, a quick tighten and it was sorted! I think its misleading because the bit of belt you can check the tension on is so short..

good luck
Craig

[the.grizzle]

Thanks for that Craig, but mine seems to be alot worse, dropping about 300rpm+, and the car idles at about 950-1000 rpm and normally drops to just over 600 if that.

I also presumed about the fanbelt when it first started happening and tightened it to no avail. And ive tested the battery and it seems fine....

How annoying...

Thanks Again
Ahmet.

[Bazmatronic]

Sorry grizzle, I meant all of my Minis. We seem to have 3 here at present between my Grandson and me. My 1964 Cooper 'S' trally car, his 1061 cc Mayfair with lots of nice bits on it and a 1966 Mini 850 which is under restoration. I also have another Cooper 'S' which is here for an engine re-build, but that should be gone by mid-week next week.
However, I have seen some rally Minis with a second earth cable from the engine to the battery, although I've never really seen the need for it so long as the earth points you use are good and have excellent contact capabilities.
I once had an earth cable come off from the engine to the body. The next time I tried to start it it eartherd through the choke cable and throttle cable. The throttle cable outer melted - not good!

 

A mate of mine lost a mini van, the cause being this exact problem - the earth strap failed, the engine earthed out through throttle cable which melted and started a fire, which quickly took hold and burnt out the engine bay in minutes : /  I've just bought two new earth straps, which I'll be fitting tomorrow as I can't for the life of me find an earth strap on my mini at the moment - I'm going to fit one across the top steady bar, and then one from the bell housing to the O/S inner wing.  I'm taking my mate's advice and being safe rather than sorry!

[carbon]

 

Sorry grizzle, I meant all of my Minis. We seem to have 3 here at present between my Grandson and me. My 1964 Cooper 'S' trally car, his 1061 cc Mayfair with lots of nice bits on it and a 1966 Mini 850 which is under restoration. I also have another Cooper 'S' which is here for an engine re-build, but that should be gone by mid-week next week.
However, I have seen some rally Minis with a second earth cable from the engine to the battery, although I've never really seen the need for it so long as the earth points you use are good and have excellent contact capabilities.
I once had an earth cable come off from the engine to the body. The next time I tried to start it it eartherd through the choke cable and throttle cable. The throttle cable outer melted - not good!

 

A mate of mine lost a mini van, the cause being this exact problem - the earth strap failed, the engine earthed out through throttle cable which melted and started a fire, which quickly took hold and burnt out the engine bay in minutes : /  I've just bought two new earth straps, which I'll be fitting tomorrow as I can't for the life of me find an earth strap on my mini at the moment - I'm going to fit one across the top steady bar, and then one from the bell housing to the O/S inner wing.  I'm taking my mate's advice and being safe rather than sorry!

 

 

Had very similar happen to me in a Metro about 25 years ago. When driving along smoke started to come from footwell area, pulled over sharpish and could see throttle inner cable glowing. Fortunately it did not burn out the car, but taken a lot of care with checking earths are good ever since.