37 replies to this topic

[mini7boy]

MRA,

1) I am not upset.

2) Mini valves seize in their guides while running for various reasons, but many seize due to the clearance after installation being too small. It is wise to run a reamer thru to make sure that the reduction in bore size caused by crimping has not made the guides too small for the valve used.

3) With all of the variables such as: valve stem diameter, guide bore diameter, guide OD, diameter of the guide's bore in the head, material used for valve, material used for guide, it is unrealistic to assume that all of these values are compatible with troublefree running. Incompatible materials are one thing that the installer must control, but incompatible dimensions can be checked/fixed with a reamer. Given how little time and cost is required to use the reamer, it's only prudent to use a reamer or other appropriate tool to make sure that the guides and valves can get along.

4) All too often in our hobby/business, someone uses a procedure or part and has no problems resulting from it, and then tells the world that he has proven that it will work under all circumstances. This conveniently ignores the possibility that another combination of parts, materials or tolerances may not work when using the same procedure.

5) You quote specific clearances for guides/valves, but you fail to account for valve stem diameters, guide ODs, guide IDs or guide bores in the head that are out of spec. Any combination of errors in these areas can cause clearance problems. You come across as someone who has never received a part that is dimensionally out of spec, but in this era of inferior parts made in some parts of the world, all parts are suspect and should be treated as if they are defective until proven otherwise or fixed.

5) By all means, continue what has worked for you.

[mini7boy]

The photos at this link show very clearly how guides can be produced with off center bores.
After these guides are installed, the seats are obviously not concentric with the guide bores.
Failure to recut the seats will cause serious valve seating problems.

Even if you replace the old guides with new ones which are perfect, the old ones may have been off center meaning that the seats have to be recut to make them concentric with the new guides

Don't ask me why guides of such poor quality are produced, much less sold. Maybe they come with a fortune cookie.


http://specialistmin...com/topic/14090

Edited by mini7boy, 05 June 2009 - 05:33 PM.

[MRA]

Hey chap .... that link don't work ! The quality of links these days is absolutely ridiculous...

[Nightrain]

Don't ask me why guides of such poor quality are produced, much less sold. Maybe they come with a fortune cookie.
url="http://specialistmin...com/topic/14090[/url]

If there made over there that would explain it, if there from the uk we just send all the *poop poop* over the pond. Never seen a standard head with off centre guides, let alone bought a set, that where off centre. Think you need to get yourself another book boy, something like this might help you out:
http://www.amazon.ca...g/dp/1884089267

Edited by Nightrain, 05 June 2009 - 07:01 PM.

[Vegard]

As Cooperman's said above, never needed to get the seat's re-cut yet. Just do a good job with grinding them in and check after with parafin.
Best way to fit the guides is to make yourself suitable drift so there all the same height ! Unlike the example below.

Isn't it satisfying enough to spread crap on Mini*melon*ity anymore?

Valve seats WILL NEED recutting after valve guides have been changed. Have the head vacuum tested before and after you'll see...

If you ream the guides to 8mm I guess you'll get away with it.

Running a reamer through a valve guide just to make sure is like putting an extra 20psi of air in your tyres just in case they leak !...........

Any good quality valve guide should NOT need to be remachined....

Reaming is not the correct way to do the job as there is insufficient material left for the reamer to work correctly.

So, are you from Minifinity too?? Valve guides could perfectly well need reaming after fitting. Especially if it is the China-iron Æ copies. They're smaller than the Æ ones. Also, it depends on the head more then the guides. If the hole in the head is small, the guides WILL need reaming, end of discussion.

Does your roller burnisher work in iron guides as well?

Edited by Vegard, 05 June 2009 - 09:59 PM.

[Nightrain]

As Cooperman's said above, never needed to get the seat's re-cut yet. Just do a good job with grinding them in and check after with parafin.
Best way to fit the guides is to make yourself suitable drift so there all the same height ! Unlike the example below.

Isn't it satisfying enough to spread crap on Mini*melon*ity anymore?

Valve seats WILL NEED recutting after valve guides have been changed. Have the head vacuum tested before and after you'll see...

If you ream the guides to 8mm I guess you'll get away with it.

Running a reamer through a valve guide just to make sure is like putting an extra 20psi of air in your tyres just in case they leak !...........

Any good quality valve guide should NOT need to be remachined....

Reaming is not the correct way to do the job as there is insufficient material left for the reamer to work correctly.

So, are you from Minifinity too?? Valve guides could perfectly well need reaming after fitting. Especially if it is the China-iron Æ copies. They're smaller than the Æ ones. Also, it depends on the head more then the guides. If the hole in the head is small, the guides WILL need reaming, end of discussion.

Does your roller burnisher work in iron guides as well?

Useful imformation as always from my viking mate

[mini7boy]

Hey mate, MRA.

the link works fine for me. I guess you have to be registered with Yuku. It was on the Ask Doddy forum and the photos were posted by the Doddmeister.

[mini7boy]

No Smiffy, erm I mean Nightrain.

you said to me "Think you need to get yourself another book boy, something like this might help you out:
[url="http://www.amazon.ca/Step-Step-Guide-Engin...g/dp/1884089267""]http://www.amazon.ca...in...884089267"[/url]

I don't need another book. You just need to be a little smarter and a little more adult. You're the only one here with oatmeal between his ears, so don't call me "boy".

The fact exists that there are defective(off center) guides made and sold out there.

The photos I posted were from AC Dodd. Have you heard of him? Do you think he goes out of his way to buy bad guides?

Even he has to deal with poor quality guides, so don't give me any of your lip about never having seen bad guides. You just aren't credible, as usual.

Just like when you claimed NASCAR cars run Methanol, right ?

Sometime when you can spare two seconds or so, why don't you tell me all you know about radiators.

Thanks, Vegard, for injecting a few facts into this conversation.

Edited by mini7boy, 06 June 2009 - 12:03 PM.

[Nightrain]

No Smiffy, erm I mean Nightrain.

you said to me "Think you need to get yourself another book boy, something like this might help you out:
[url="http://www.amazon.ca/Step-Step-Guide-Engin...g/dp/1884089267""]http://www.amazon.ca...in...884089267"[/url]

I don't need another book. You just need to be a little smarter and a little more adult. You're the only one here with oatmeal between his ears, so don't call me "boy".

The fact exists that there are defective(off center) guides made and sold out there.

The photos I posted were from AC Dodd. Have you heard of him? Do you think he goes out of his way to buy bad guides?

Even he has to deal with poor quality guides, so don't give me any of your lip about never having seen bad guides. You just aren't credible, as usual.

Just like when you claimed NASCAR cars run Methanol, right ?

Sometime when you can spare two seconds or so, why don't you tell me all you know about radiators.

Thanks, Vegard, for injecting a few facts into this conversation.

LOL look boy my beef is with calver and not you,where you there when he gave his word ? I guess the guide your on about is the one AC posted on finity. Anyone fitting such a guide (I wouldn't personally) has made a personal assessment of parts used in there engine.
If I had a head that was as blatantly machined out of centre obviously the seats would need cutting. But I have a process of selection of the parts I use in my motors and neither a head or guide that was so far out would be used !
So you can bring up what ever you like from different forums and ancient posts, but the fact is it is down to who ever builds the engine is happy with. You and others my be happy using dodgy parts but I aren't.
End of story !

[mini7boy]

Look Smiffy. I don't care who your beef is with. You have no credibility here or elsewhere.

When logic fails you or facts prove you wrong, you just resort to name-calling.

Your NASCAR remarks proved that.

The issue was never about what you do or don't do with your engines.

It was about what others need to do if they want to avoid problems caused by defective guides.

Your "mate" Vegard sure set you straight on the need to recut seats. Or was that point not clear to you? I guess it wasn't clear to you.

[Nightrain]

Look Smiffy. I don't care who your beef is with. You have no credibility here or elsewhere.

When logic fails you or facts prove you wrong, you just resort to name-calling.

Your NASCAR remarks proved that.

The issue was never about what you do or don't do with your engines.

It was about what others need to do if they want to avoid problems caused by defective guides.

Your "mate" Vegard sure set you straight on the need to recut seats. Or was that point not clear to you? I guess it wasn't clear to you.

If you want to carry on as you are thats fine with me, if in your mind it's not possible to grind valves in and get as perfect seal, after fitting new guides, thats alright as well ! You carry on.
But for anyone else it's perfectly possible with, as I said careful selection of parts and assembly.

Having a go about the name calling, or for that matter threats with knives, is a bit much coming from you lol

[mini7boy]

Look Smiffy. I don't care who your beef is with. You have no credibility here or elsewhere.

When logic fails you or facts prove you wrong, you just resort to name-calling.

Your NASCAR remarks proved that.

The issue was never about what you do or don't do with your engines.

It was about what others need to do if they want to avoid problems caused by defective guides.

Your "mate" Vegard sure set you straight on the need to recut seats. Or was that point not clear to you? I guess it wasn't clear to you.

If you want to carry on as you are thats fine with me, if in your mind it's not possible to grind valves in and get as perfect seal, after fitting new guides, thats alright as well ! You carry on.
But for anyone else it's perfectly possible with, as I said careful selection of parts and assembly.

Having a go about the name calling, or for that matter threats with knives, is a bit much coming from you lol

Smiffy-

It doesn't matter to me what your opinions are because two legitimate A-series experts and even your mate Vegard agree with me. The two experts have
built more engines in their sleep than you have dreamed of building in your life. You can stamp your feet all you want, but it means nothing.
Shakespeare's writings in Macbeth describe you and your postings beautifully. He wrote "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing. " PERFECT !
As for me making "threats with knives", you must have forgotten to take your meds again if you think that's true. Calm down, lad. It shall pass. lmao

[samsfern]

now now!

[MRA]

Of course you can use a screw driver as a chisel everybody has probably seen it or done it........... Vegard wants top use a reamer that's up to him

[Nightrain]

Look Smiffy. I don't care who your beef is with. You have no credibility here or elsewhere.

When logic fails you or facts prove you wrong, you just resort to name-calling.

Your NASCAR remarks proved that.

The issue was never about what you do or don't do with your engines.

It was about what others need to do if they want to avoid problems caused by defective guides.

Your "mate" Vegard sure set you straight on the need to recut seats. Or was that point not clear to you? I guess it wasn't clear to you.

If you want to carry on as you are thats fine with me, if in your mind it's not possible to grind valves in and get as perfect seal, after fitting new guides, thats alright as well ! You carry on.
But for anyone else it's perfectly possible with, as I said careful selection of parts and assembly.

Having a go about the name calling, or for that matter threats with knives, is a bit much coming from you lol

LMFAO at the boy what is with you, is it because I proved you been using the incorrect tap for the crankshaft ?

So in your mind is it not possible to fit guides without re-cutting the seats. Shall we have a poll to see how many people have done this successfully.

Meds that's funny, I've heard about your ranting about smiffy.

Actually I think about it you should lay off the Meds and it's messing with your memory, pic below is of the post you where banned from finity for a month.

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