93 replies to this topic

[Crazy Harry]

Very useful thread - but if I could add a little more.

 

I have just acquired a mk3 shell registered 1st August 1970 on the V5C. The shell is as described for a gen mk3 but most of the rear bulkhead has been cut away. I'm starting to look for a replacement panel but should this have the small or large rotodip hole?

[jpw1275]

I have a 1973 mk3 which as no hole in the rear bulk head

Cheers james

[62S]

I have just acquired a mk3 shell registered 1st August 1970 on the V5C. The shell is as described for a gen mk3 but most of the rear bulkhead has been cut away. I'm starting to look for a replacement panel but should this have the small or large rotodip hole?

That should have the large or, if you prefer, elongated rotodip hole.

[Crazy Harry]

 

I have just acquired a mk3 shell registered 1st August 1970 on the V5C. The shell is as described for a gen mk3 but most of the rear bulkhead has been cut away. I'm starting to look for a replacement panel but should this have the small or large rotodip hole?

That should have the large or, if you prefer, elongated rotodip hole.

 

Thanks for that - all I have to do now is find one. Have seen a few suppliers offering new panels with the small hole but not the larger / elongated one. Still at least I know what I'm looking for now!

[Down&Out]

 

 

I have just acquired a mk3 shell registered 1st August 1970 on the V5C. The shell is as described for a gen mk3 but most of the rear bulkhead has been cut away. I'm starting to look for a replacement panel but should this have the small or large rotodip hole?

That should have the large or, if you prefer, elongated rotodip hole.

 

Thanks for that - all I have to do now is find one. Have seen a few suppliers offering new panels with the small hole but not the larger / elongated one. Still at least I know what I'm looking for now!

 

 

You'll have to find someone scrapping a shell and have it cut out, which is what i've had to do!

[miniireland]

Hi all,

It's really tedious seeing tax exempt Minis for sale for top-dollar, which have clearly been re-shelled into a later body shell.

Sometimes the sellers are aware of this, sometimes not. Many people say that it doesn't matter and all internal-hinged Mini 'shells are the same... well they are definitely not!  If you are investing considerable money or time into a pre-'73 saloon, you want to know you're getting the right 'kit' for your money..

There are big legal/ moral issues involved here too.. some re-shells are legal, a lot are not.  I'm not wishing to get involved with that on this thread but it's worth remembering, a tax-exempt car with a chassis number stamped into it from the original 1980s/90s car it was 'built into' will do more than raise a few eyebrows with your cheerful VOSA inspector!!! The worst case scenario is that you will loose the car. The best is that it will be put onto a 'Q' plate and you will loose your tax-exempt status- not nice on an otherwise nice car.  (edit- I'm not sure Q-plates are issued nowadays..)

Hence, this thread!

Please use the pictures below to age a Mk3 Saloon body shell

First off, the biggest give-away is the floor. All pre-1973 Mk3s had a 'remote' gear change which used a big alloy extension from the back of the gearbox, which runs under the floor. The Mk3 floor where the gear stick comes through, up to 1973 (and a little later for 850cc cars..), looks like this with an 'oval' shaped exhaust tunnel-



Pre 1976 cars have the twin-cable handbrake setup, with a different bracket as below-



All Mk3 (1970-1976) cars had a solid-mounted front subframe with a twin-bolt fixing at the top. Look under the bonnet in the corners of the bulkhead cross-member. A solid-mounted (pre 1976) car should have twin bolt holes as below. A later Mk4 onwards car will have a big, single bolt-



Now check out the triangular plate that shields this area. It connects the bulkhead cross-member to the inner wing. Solid-mounted cars have a different/ smaller hole here for the wiring to pass through on the O/S. Also, the four holes halfway down the plate are absent on early (pre '76) cars-



Now, still under the bonnet, check out the middle of the bulkhead cross-member, behind the carb if the engine is still fitted. There is a dip here to allow the carb's jet to clear the bodywork. On pre 1975 cars, this is very shallow as there was no waxstat jets fitted at this point-



nb. Late 1975 to summer (?) 1976 cars only had the deeper depression like the later cars, but also still had the twin-bolt, solid front subframe as pictured above.  1976 onwards cars with single-bolt, rubber-mounted front subframes all had the deep depression, to clear the now-standard waxstat jets.

Pre 1976 cars also had 'drip rails' fitted to the guttering around the roof-




Now go to the back of the car. Look at the rear seat back. Pre 1973ish.. cars should have this big 'rotodip' hole-



Look in the rear 'companion' boxes, either side of the rear seat base. Cars made prior to 1975ish.. had welded-in ashtray holders, as pictured-



Now look in the boot. If the fuel tank is present, it should be the smaller 5.5 gallon size before 1976. This also needs the support bracket, arrowed below-



If you're lucky enough to find a car with it's original outer sills, pre 1971 cars had four-vent sills.
All cars after 1971 had the more familiar six-vent items, if original of course.

A really decent, restored, pre-71 car should have four-vent sills as they are still available new..

Hopefully the above should give you some advice about ageing a bare body shell.

Remember, all pre-1980 cars had NO chassis numbers stamped into the scuttle.

 

Of course, if the car is still complete, there are many, many bolt-on items that can allow you to age an otherwise unidentifiable car but, all these things can be changed, it's easy to be put off the scent with things like smaller, mk2/3 rear lamps and black & silver number plates!

 

You'll notice I've put ...ish.. after a lot of the dates.  This is because there are no definite cut-off points for changes to the Mini body shell.  In most cases, records were not even kept by BL or whatever they were called at the time.  Parts were used up 'as and when' and there is definitely the odd 'mongrel' shell out there that has been that way since it left the factory.  However, the above is a reasonably reliable, basic guide to the major metalwork changes.

It is true that, Minis- being the cars they are, were commonly 'uprated' over the years. For example, it was all the rage to fit the larger, Mk2-style rear lamps over the early, tiny Mk1 units in the 70s and 80s.  However, it's not easy to change everything, especially solid-mounted bulkheads etc, so it's relatively simple to I.D a genuine 'shell and whittle out the fakes

Happy hunting, know what you're buying!!

Hi is there any chance you still have the photos from the original post ?

[Boycie]

Hi Miniireland, I will fix the original post. Not only are the old photos dead, but recent legislation changes mean the text needs updating too.
I'll sort it out!

[miniireland]

Hi Miniireland, I will fix the original post. Not only are the old photos dead, but recent legislation changes mean the text needs updating too.
I'll sort it out!

Thanks Boycie, id like to reference my own Mk3 Innocenti

[Boycie]

I've added some new pictures to the first post.  Will replace the other dead ones when I can photograph my car.

[Gilles1000]

Hi all,

 

I spotted a Mini MK3 '72 to be sold, seems to pass all the tests you mentioned, the only one I am not sure is the hand brake, it has only one cable fitted in the middle of the car. Could it be a later modification? 

 

 

Concerning the engine bay I got only this picture but I can recognize the long-shaped gasket of the 2-bolt fixing of the frame. Can you confirm?

In the cabin the two bolts are further lower as later Minis. Should there be one on the footwell and one on the floor each side?

The engine should match too, only difference I can see is the alternator. Should still be a dynamo, isn't it?

 

 

Regards

Gilles

Edited by Gilles1000, 25 November 2018 - 06:55 PM.

[Boycie]

Hi Gilles, it looks correct for a 1972 'shell to me.  Yes, the handbrake appears to have a single cable but that could be easily changed.  I can't quite make out the picture but it looks like the twin-cable setup was once there, you can see two black marks where the original rubber gaskets were (or it may just be dirt!)  Whatever, both front and rear floors are correct and look like they haven't been tampered with.

You have the hole in the rear seat back, the remote-change front floor pressing and the alternator could have been an option by '72.  I can't see any evidence of there being a dynamo control box (or its wiring) so I'll guess the alternator has been there from new.

Looks like a good project to me.

[mab01uk]

LHD Export or overseas built Mk3 Minis often had alternators fitted as standard before the UK which had dynamos for longer. Export or overseas built Minis often also had larger front indicator lamps than UK cars....as seen in your photos. Note in listing below the early 1275GT and Mk3 Cooper S had different engine number codes for dynamo or alternator factory fitted. The handbrake had been converted with a homemade bracket for single cable, probably because that was more easily available as a replacement or wrongly supplied. As said the original two cable holes are still visible. The rear bulkhead has correct hole and cardboard blanking panel, definitely a Mk3 as are front subframe mounts.

 

12H379           1275GT with dynamo, negative earth, electric fuel pump and remote type gearbox

12H380           1275GT with alternator, negative earth, electric fuel pump and remote type  gearbox

12H389           1275GT with dynamo, negative earth, mechanical fuel pump and remote type gearbox

12H390            1275GT with alternator, negative earth, mechanical fuel pump and remote type gearbox

12H706            1275GT with alternator, negative earth, mechanical fuel pump and rod change gearbox

12H397            Cooper S Mk3 with dynamo and negative earth

12H398            Cooper S Mk3 with alternator and negative earth

https://www.minimani...on_Data_UPDATED

Edited by mab01uk, 25 November 2018 - 08:23 PM.

[Gilles1000]

@ Boycie and mab01uk, 

 

thanks for the useful information!!

I will now have to think about if I already start my second project when I just started the first one...

But somehow I am interested in the solid front subframe, let's see ;)

 

Regards

Gilles

[imack]

My mini 1000 has a build date of November 72, it's in the 1st month of production to be fitted with an alternator and in the last month of production to be fitted with a remote box according to john parnells book.

Attached Files

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[Aly-g]

Ah yes, how could I forget the way people kick it every time they climb in the back!!

I just love the way the Mk1 cars had 5 ashtrays Smoking must have been very important in the 50's lol.

Apparently  Mr Alec Issigonis being a chain smoker thought ash trays where more important  in a Mini than a radio !

... Fact !

 

Allan