79 replies to this topic

[Tupers]

Although there is no doubt that the Zcars is substantially stronger than the original car it is the way in which it is fitted that is in question. You could buy the best parts in the world but if they are not fitted adiquetly then they can cause more harm than good. At the end of the day any Zcars converted vehicle needs to go through an SVA test and there's no way of bypassing it unless you are building a track only car.

[Neil_S]

I’ve done a little digging into this subject and it appears ( I could be wrong )that we will need to put the cars through the new IVA M1 test to make them legal as any changes however small to the structure of the vehicle will require a test.

I have managed to get a contact in VOSA from a friend of a friend of a friend and am waiting on a reply, I will post it here if they are happy to let me.

If they do need an IVA test the only problems I can see apart from it being a complete pain is the steering column ( original mini type ) and a cat to meet the emissions.

I am told that there is no possibilty that VOSA will take your car and crush because it did not have an SVA / IVA test, all that would happen is that you would be required to put it through a test or take it off the road.

I am only passing on what I have been told and take no responsibility for anything.


Some interesting reading

http://www.pistonhea...a...0INF26 and
 IVA_Guide_version_30_Dec.pdf   887.75K   51 downloads

I have a draft copy of the IVA manual, if any one wants it I can post it here but it is a large file

Edited by Neil_S, 01 March 2009 - 02:10 PM.

[Phaeton]

You forgot the other most important thing, if they come back & say they need IVA then each build will go up by at least £500 the cost of the IVA test.

Safety is obviously the most important thing, but you all know where I'm coming from on this.

Alan...

[SAD_Man]

Just thought I would comment on a few things that have been said:

Neil_S wrote:
"I am told that there is no possibilty that VOSA will take your car and crush because it did not have an SVA / IVA test, all that would happen is that you would be required to put it through a test or take it off the road."

VOSA never has and never will be responsible for having a car crushed, it is the DVLA that do this.

The reason why the "Land Rover" was crushed was due it's identity being "ambiguous" and not on the grounds of safety, if your vehicle does not have enough 'points' on the DVLA system then as far as the DVLA are concerned it is no longer the vehicle it was originally registered as. Therefore the reason why 'Q' plates are issued to vehicles which are SVA'd as they do not have enough original mechanical content to retain the original registration mark. It is down to their discretion whether they give you the opportunity to make the vehicle compliant, they may or may not give you the opportunity.

Neil_S wrote:
"Their seems to be a bit of panic over nothing here, I don't know the full story with the landrover being crushed, but I do know that VOSA can't just come to your house and take your car away based only on the opinion of an MOT inspector, if that was the case than the car industry probably wouldn’t be in the state it’s in."

Again it's the DVLA not VOSA, obviously the DVLA has their attention drawn to a vehicle by whatever means, in this case an MOT tester, it is not the "say so" of the MOT tester that caused it to be crushed but the appraisal of the DVLA when they assess a vehicle.

Cheers

[e11evns]

i'm gonna have to agree with tupers, unless you build a zcar from new using 1 recon part and having it sva'd then you have very little chance of retaining your reg and it will be Q plated.
The only chance you might have of having an age related plate is by keeping it completely standard and having a road spec kit fitted and nothing else ie keep original front subframe, seats, seat belts, carpet dash etc etc and they might say there is enough of the original car in which to give you an age related plate.
I myself have bought everything brand new apart from the shell and engine and gearbox so if i sva i will be given a Q plate which i dont want, not that there is any thing wrong with a Q plate but i have a private plate and its built to look old school and would not be in keeping with the look of the car.
I can tell you that no one is gonna crush your car unless your identity is in question or you are a major road tax evader so what i indend to do is have the correct cc, engine number and colour on the v5 and use an mot tester that will test the car without reporting it and enjoy my car to the max, and if the day does come up that i need a test then so be it and it gets a Q plate.
There is one other way round all this and that is for z cars to have the kits tested to some sort of regognised european standards and have a certificate of installation for the quality of the install of the kit?

[cptkirk]

i'm gonna have to agree with tupers, unless you build a zcar from new using 1 recon part and having it sva'd then you have very little chance of retaining your reg and it will be Q plated.
The only chance you might have of having an age related plate is by keeping it completely standard and having a road spec kit fitted and nothing else ie keep original front subframe, seats, seat belts, carpet dash etc etc and they might say there is enough of the original car in which to give you an age related plate.
I myself have bought everything brand new apart from the shell and engine and gearbox so if i sva i will be given a Q plate which i dont want, not that there is any thing wrong with a Q plate but i have a private plate and its built to look old school and would not be in keeping with the look of the car.
I can tell you that no one is gonna crush your car unless your identity is in question or you are a major road tax evader so what i indend to do is have the correct cc, engine number and colour on the v5 and use an mot tester that will test the car without reporting it and enjoy my car to the max, and if the day does come up that i need a test then so be it and it gets a Q plate.
There is one other way round all this and that is for z cars to have the kits tested to some sort of regognised european standards and have a certificate of installation for the quality of the install of the kit?

Sounds like a good idea to me.........and lets face it thats what everyone else has done so far. If the DVLA get wise to it all Zcars might have to be tested and given a Q, therefore levelling the playing field. Thats if you can get it through the damned test!!!!!!!

Safety in numbers.

[Phaeton]

The only chance you might have of having an age related plate is by keeping it completely standard and having a road spec kit fitted and nothing else ie keep original front subframe, seats, seat belts, carpet dash etc etc and they might say there is enough of the original car in which to give you an age related plate.

By your theory I couldn't go from




To this & keep an age related plate.



But as you can see I did & am doing again.

Alan...

[al_reidy]

The only chance you might have of having an age related plate is by keeping it completely standard and having a road spec kit fitted and nothing else ie keep original front subframe, seats, seat belts, carpet dash etc etc and they might say there is enough of the original car in which to give you an age related plate.

By your theory I couldn't go from




To this & keep an age related plate.



But as you can see I did & am doing again.

Alan...

it does not mean its right!

[Phaeton]

it does not mean its right!

How do you work that one out?

The buggy was presented for SVA, passed the V5C of the donor vehicle was handed in at the time of the DVLA inspection & DVLA issued a 'new' age related number plate. The 'new' age related buggy didn't need a MOT for 3 years of which 1 year remains.

Alan...

[al_reidy]

it does not mean its right!

How do you work that one out?

The buggy was presented for SVA, passed the V5C of the donor vehicle was handed in at the time of the DVLA inspection & DVLA issued a 'new' age related number plate. The 'new' age related buggy didn't need a MOT for 3 years of which 1 year remains.

Alan...

my bad, i assumed you had just done the mods and not told the dvla like most of the zcars minis.
sorry dude

AL

[cptkirk]

it does not mean its right!

How do you work that one out?

The buggy was presented for SVA, passed the V5C of the donor vehicle was handed in at the time of the DVLA inspection & DVLA issued a 'new' age related number plate. The 'new' age related buggy didn't need a MOT for 3 years of which 1 year remains.

Alan...

Hi Alan

I take it your buggy had enough donor parts to warrant it keeping the original year of registration but not enough to keep the same registration plate?

Are you trying to tell us there is another way?

Can you elaborate as to how you came to be in the position with relation to the SVA test and the DVLA.

Will this route still be effective with the IVA?

Cheers

I have attached a file re: IVA  080221_Technical_Reqs_Document_1_v2__M1_N1_bIVA_.doc   212K   16 downloads

Notice that the VOSA guys are talking about the new basic IVA being called the BIVA - "So when are you getting your BIVA done?" - OOh err...........

Edited by cptkirk, 06 March 2009 - 02:52 PM.

[Phaeton]

Hi Alan

I take it your buggy had enough donor parts to warrant it keeping the original year of registration but not enough to keep the same registration plate?

That's about the size of it, it uses the engine, gearbox, subframe, some suspension parts & steering, however & I 'think' the critical bit was it uses a new chassis with a new chassis number therefore cannot be the same vehicle.

Are you trying to tell us there is another way?

No I'm not trying to tell anybody anything really just my own experiences, although i would say that each DVLA seem to have their own interpretation of the rules.

Can you elaborate as to how you came to be in the position with relation to the SVA test and the DVLA.

Not sure what you mean by this?

Will this route still be effective with the IVA?

All the buggies we have being built now on our forum are being built with the assumption they will be IVA'd before going on the road.

I have attached a file re: IVA  080221_Technical_Reqs_Document_1_v2__M1_N1_bIVA_.doc   212K   16 downloads

I think this is an old draft, there is a newer one available & another final due in about 5 weeks which I'm led to believe has quite few changes & may have impact on open type buggies like ours but we will have to wait & see.

Notice that the VOSA guys are talking about the new basic IVA being called the BIVA - "So when are you getting your BIVA done?" - OOh err...........

As with SVA there are 2 types of test depending on the use & origin of vehicle, I rushed mine & got it through SVA so I didn't have to do IVA. Not that I was concerned it wouldn't pass it was, the expected increase of £350 I didn't like. It passed SVA last Monday & I have an appointment with DVLA next Tuesday to sort out registration, they wouldn't do it Monday. Even though I turned up with the buggy to submit the paperwork & DVLA is only 3 miles from VOSA, but I now have to do another 80 mile trip. We will see then whether I come away with another age related plate or a Q plate, I would prefer an age related, but on the type of vehicle it is a Q wouldn't be a hardship.

I think the problem with all of this is there are so many variations & there cannot be rules for instance, unless we go down the New Zealand (I think) route. Over there they cannot modify anything without getting permission first & then inspected after. I understand that's even down to fitting alloys & exhausts, but I may have been misled about that. Now to my mind that is far too strict.

Alan...

[cptkirk]

Alan

Thanks thats cleared things up a bit for me.

I think the key thing for your project (from reading the SVA and IVA stuff) is the use of the engine, especially in the case of the IVA they are leaning more towards the identity of the engine used rather than the chassis, which seems odd. Ho hum I guess we all wait to see what happens with Al Reidys car when they inspect.

Andy

[e11evns]

I rang my local dvla today and told them about the mini conversion and they said my mini was not radically altered ? so i asked her what do you call radically altered ? to which she replied if i was to make it a 4 door from a 2 door or 4 wheel to six wheel, long wheel base to short wheel base, because the physical appearance is not altered in any way she said it dont matter if your engine is in the front or the back, front wheel drive or rear wheel as long as i put the correct cc and engine number. Obviously this is her interpretation of the rules so after our chat i then told her i dont believe you can i have further proof of what your saying so she gave me an email of the Vehicle technical standards and engineering department '[email protected]' and apparently if i email these people with the description of the car they will make it a bit more black and white for me. i personally cant be bothered but if anyone else does then by all means give it a go and let us know what happens.

[Phaeton]

I rang my local dvla today and told them about the mini conversion

Can I ask how you managed that for future reference I cannot seem to get past the chickens at Swansea. The only thing I have managed to do once was push really hard & they get the local DVLA to phone you back.

Alan...