29 replies to this topic

[Dan]

The points system no longer applies to re-shells. Re-shelling is now defined as using a brand new, original specification shell and at least two major components from the original vehicle. This has been the case for around 5 years. The Directgov page is wrong and they know this but refuse to update it.

[Shifty]

This is something that I've always wondered about, how to define original, is it?

1/ Original as left factory

2/ Original as in parts carried over from re-shell?

So if I were to reshell my 72' cooper replica, which has virtually no factory fitted parts left, I could do so with a heritage shell and keep the reg no / Vin?

However if I were to restore a similar car with a heritage, using replacement engine/ frames/ interior / etc but to a factory spec then that car should really be on a "Q" plate?

Is this correct?

[Cooper-202S]

This is something that I've always wondered about, how to define original, is it?

1/ Original as left factory

2/ Original as in parts carried over from re-shell?

So if I were to reshell my 72' cooper replica, which has virtually no factory fitted parts left, I could do so with a heritage shell and keep the reg no / Vin?

However if I were to restore a similar car with a heritage, using replacement engine/ frames/ interior / etc but to a factory spec then that car should really be on a "Q" plate?

Is this correct?

[Dan]

Yes. Parts are original if they are all new when fitted to the car. They don't have to be original to the car when it left the factory but they are supposed to be new when fitted as replacements. Fitting loads of second hand parts is what causes problems when it comes to a VIN check. If you can proove that all the second hand parts have been fitted over many years as part of maintaining the vehicle then they will be accepted as part of its identity before the rebuild. When re-shelling you aren't supposed to use any second hand parts from another vehicle. You can replace as much as you like in theory with new parts, so long as two major assemblies come from the original vehicle. If you build a vehicle from a whole collection of different second hand parts of similar age you can register it as a reconstructed classic which won't get a Q but won't keep any identity from any of the cars stripped to provide parts either. It really is a bit of a minefield and there are many sets of rules that seem to contradict each other and common sense.

[Cooper-202S]

This is something that I've always wondered about, how to define original, is it?
1/ Original as left factory
2/ Original as in parts carried over from re-shell?
So if I were to reshell my 72' cooper replica, which has virtually no factory fitted parts left, I could do so with a heritage shell and keep the reg no / Vin?
However if I were to restore a similar car with a heritage, using replacement engine/ frames/ interior / etc but to a factory spec then that car should really be on a "Q" plate?
Is this correct?

In trying to ascertain the identity of a vehical they refer to the available documentation, if you presented a heritage shell with the engine from the origional registered car and reused looking running gear IE doesnt look like brand new parts they will very likley let it go through on the origional registration.
They seem to be fairly pragmatic that the vehical is 35 years old then quiet alot of it will have secummed to the ravages of time.
New Shell and new engine number then you will end up with either a Q plate or a relavent dated registration.


For clarification my knowledge comes from discussing trying to build a classic mini on a heritage shell with all new parts to get it on an 09 plate ( CO09ers) but a BMW dealer paid £80 K for it so the project became a non starter.

Edited by Cooper-202S, 04 January 2009 - 02:40 PM.

[Dan]

Building a brand new car is a very different field from repairing or rebuilding one. To build a new car you'd simply have to use all new parts and SVA it, which as we've discussed before would be tricky with a Mini body.

[Cooper-202S]

Building a brand new car is a very different field from repairing or rebuilding one. To build a new car you'd simply have to use all new parts and SVA it, which as we've discussed before would be tricky with a Mini body.

The biggest problem to be honest was the reqirement to meet the current regulations to register it as a new car rather than a recovered classic.
Immissions we could cope with, but as a 'production variant' there was no way we could make it meet the impact requirements for passenger safety. But it was a fun idea to explore.

[taffy1967]

But Wood & Pickett seem to be managing it with their 'Margrave 50's'?

[Roo]

But Wood & Pickett seem to be managing it with their 'Margrave 50's'?

And the Bike engined minis

theres an 08 plate R1 mini around Reading.. was spotted by Rodders the other day.

[mrslaphead]

But Wood & Pickett seem to be managing it with their 'Margrave 50's'?

And the Bike engined minis

theres an 08 plate R1 mini around Reading.. was spotted by Rodders the other day.

I think that one was in a mag a few months ago, to get SVA you can only use one second hand part, the r1 Engine.
Everything else is brand new , and iirc he fabricated a collapsible steering column.

[Dan]

It couldn't go through as a production variant anyway, it would have to have a second hand engine for one thing and it isn't being built by the holder of the type approval. And the type approval is invalid now. You would have to SVA it as an amateur built car. Wood and Pickett will be SVA testing them as a low volume producer, and I seriously expect them to get in trouble with BMW and maybe loose their licence for doing it.

[Scotauto]

"or you could do it Swiss style and stamp a plate up and weld it to the righthand floor inside." This is often the practice in Denmark too. However officially if your gonna repair the floor were the number is you have to go to the synhal (MOT Station) and ask for a geninghugningsattest. That's a document that says you can punch the number in again. Once you have this document you can keep puting the number in again and again.

[scrumpymini]

So when people do have to replace the windscreen scuttle or buy a new heritage shell what is the best option then, can you just leave it blank and keep the original part at home and show photos of the work being done, cut out the numbers section on the original panel and get this welded in place or can you get the numbers stamped into your new panel.
I wish you could get a garage to sign some kind of declaration of work and get these numbers moved across when the new panel is being fitted.
So for all the people who have a mini that has had the scuttle replaced but now has no numbers on it could these cars be taken away from them ?

[taffy1967]

Well this 1991 Mini Cooper got a new scuttle panel and had the VIN number stamped into it again: -

http://mcr.mywowbb.c...rum31/3272.html

Shame they used fake numbers though.

So I'm sure it really doesn't matter if the scuttle is missing that number, so long as you're not trying to pass your Mini off as something that it isn't?

[Dan]

could these cars be taken away from them ?

In this country the court has to proove that you have committed a crime before they can punish you (in most cases, mainly regarding those laws that the current government haven't changed to make it easier to prosecute). If you have simply rebuilt or repaired your car, there is no crime. My car has a Heritage shell without the scuttle stamped. Nobody can proove it was once someone elses stolen car because it wasn't, I have all the paperwork to proove that I bought a new shell and had it painted and fitted out. At the time I did it the points system was in place for re-shells and everything I did was in full compliance with the law and my insurer knows all about it. I don't intend ever selling the Mini so I'm quite happy with things the way they are.