29 replies to this topic

[Scotauto]

The minivan I have bought has no number stamped on the shell anywhere. I have the chassis plate and the commision number plate but it should also have a number punched i the floor, shouldn't it?

[THE ANORAK]

it should have the number stamped in the gutter on the front of the scuttle panel, on the drivers side i believe, just look down between the shuttle and the bonnet

[Shifty]

It would depend on the year I think, later models did have the chassis no stamped on the actual body.

To the very best of my knowledge, on most minis the only way of ID is via the chassis plate.

[GreaseMonkey]

Minis didnt have the Chassis number stamped in the scuttle gutter till around the 80s I think

[Dan]

VIN numbers are stamped into the gutter and are legally required to be stamped on the car somewhere. VIN numbers came in during 1980. Before that I don't believe there was a requirement to stamp the commision or chassis number on the body at all.

[Scotauto]

Found it! In the scuttle panel. Thanks everyone.

[scrumpymini]

What happens if you replace the scuttle panel as they do rust a lot on later minis, do you have to get this stamped onto the new one.

[taffy1967]

What happens if you replace the scuttle panel as they do rust a lot on later minis, do you have to get this stamped onto the new one.

I didn't, but I kept the rusty remains of my original which still bears the VIN number stamp.

[Scotauto]

I guess I'll be replacing it. I don't think they know about the number in the scuttle here in Denmark. It's always on the right hand front floor.

[scrumpymini]

What happens if you replace the scuttle panel as they do rust a lot on later minis, do you have to get this stamped onto the new one.

I didn't, but I kept the rusty remains of my original which still bears the VIN number stamp.

The thing is if we all put loads of time, money and effort into restoring a shell and then the numbers are not put across what will happen if someone nicks it and if by luck it is found again how can you prove the shell was yours or do you just use the VIN plate that rivets on the car to show the cars ID.
Is there anyway the old number can be put onto the new scuttle to help stop someone just nicking your car and then changing the VIN/number plates over on it.

[minidaves]

you can do it with a set of engineers number stamps

dave

[Cooper-202S]

Without wishing to start WW3

There is a whole section on the DVLA web site about registering "Radicaly altered & Restored Vehicals" that is worth reading.

After a run in with the DVLA 2 years ago with another vehical which turned out to be there fault for transposing digits when they produced the V5 I'm on good terms with my local VOSA inspector who do most of the identity checks.

The letter of the law is that if you make any changes to a vehical that affects its identity including repairs in areas that incorperate 'unique identifying markers 'IE Vin numbers' then you need to get a vehical identy check done. There's no mandatory requirement but it can save a hell of a lot of hastle if you get stopped, generaly they seize vehicals they cant positively identify or look like they have been tampered with.

Get a picture of the area your going to replace to show after the repairs are made then the number can be re stamped after the inspection, this is what is done with kit cars and the like.

If your going to change an engine at the same time then it is best to get the new engine number on the V5 BEFORE you take it for the check!!!!!!!!

If you doing a major rebuild on the body then it is worth getting a comprehensive vehical inspection done rather than just MOT'ing it, again this is a kit car/radicaly altered thing but it means your bomb proof with your insurers if you have an accident as they cant blame poor work or dangerous modifications and not pay out.

[Rosslin Racing]

or you could do it Swiss style and stamp a plate up and weld it to the righthand floor inside.

[scrumpymini]

Without wishing to start WW3

There is a whole section on the DVLA web site about registering "Radicaly altered & Restored Vehicals" that is worth reading.

After a run in with the DVLA 2 years ago with another vehical which turned out to be there fault for transposing digits when they produced the V5 I'm on good terms with my local VOSA inspector who do most of the identity checks.

The letter of the law is that if you make any changes to a vehical that affects its identity including repairs in areas that incorperate 'unique identifying markers 'IE Vin numbers' then you need to get a vehical identy check done. There's no mandatory requirement but it can save a hell of a lot of hastle if you get stopped, generaly they seize vehicals they cant positively identify or look like they have been tampered with.

Get a picture of the area your going to replace to show after the repairs are made then the number can be re stamped after the inspection, this is what is done with kit cars and the like.

If your going to change an engine at the same time then it is best to get the new engine number on the V5 BEFORE you take it for the check!!!!!!!!

If you doing a major rebuild on the body then it is worth getting a comprehensive vehical inspection done rather than just MOT'ing it, again this is a kit car/radicaly altered thing but it means your bomb proof with your insurers if you have an accident as they cant blame poor work or dangerous modifications and not pay out.

Do new heritage shells come with a new number then ? and who is it that has to stamp the number onto the car.
So if people are putting flip fronts on or changing to a non a series engine and changing the subframe etc are you suggesting people should always get a CVI done to make sure you are covered with the insurance etc.
Think this could be a can of worms subject and i wonder how many mini's do not even have a number stamped onto them.

[Cooper-202S]

To describe this as a can of worms is pure understatement

Most of the following is for all the enthusisasts out there not the full time professionals.

Reshelling
I was told heritage shells only has a serial number not a vin number as they are produced specifialy as 'Replacements'
Firstly, If you are reshelling then the points system applies
You have to score 8 points to keep the origional registration to do this with a mini this requires engine, both subframes, steering rack, running gears ( hubs, wheels etc) and just about everything else to score enough points.
Once complete the vehical should be subjected to an identity check where the inspector issues a certificate. Haven't been able to check whether they will mark the number as they do with Kit cars or just notify you of it, origional or otherwise.

Flip fronts
Having spoken to a MOT tester the front end of a Mini Ie wings A panels and inner wings are not considered Structural from an Impact protection perspective the front subframe is the impact element and therfore do not come under the definition of 'Radical alteration' however the front subframe mounting connects to the inner wing and therefore this constitutes a 'Chassis' modification if the inner wing is removed.
So technicaly a CVI is in order to ensure the modification is correct and structuraly sound.
Like wise Structural repairs, A posts, inner sills, floor pans, anywhere the subframes mount in fact all constitute 'Structural repairs' and should be MOT'ed at a minimum.

Subframes
A subframe is defined as a demountable chassis element as it unbolts so is a repair not a modification, if done youself get it checked via an MOT.

Non A series engines
If mounted in the standard sub frame then its not a radical alteration nor a chassis modification from a structural sense but the issue exists as to whether the shell and more importantly the brakes are upto stopping 150+HP, I wonder how many of the realy extravigant mods have actualy been proven from a engineering calcs point of view.
That will give rise to insurance issues in an accident!

Insurance and CVI's
We all know that insurance companies can wriggle through gaps that exist only in theroretical physics, but in todays world that is governed by little bits of paper the question that will be asked is 'Was the person who carried out the modifications qualified/ competant to do so, OR have they been checked by some one who IS?' note the later point for all us enthusiasts, because it will be you in court getting sued if your insurance company renders you policy invalid.
In any accident if one vehical can be proven unroadworthy they immediatly carry the blame for the accident!
CVI is a government inspector stating that the vehical is safe for road use is somewhat difficult for your insurance company to argue with.

How about we as a community adopt the more reasonable approach of telling the DVLA when we change an engine and the size it realy is, yes the insurance cost can be a real bummer but better than finding out you uninsured after the fact.
This will also put a real clamp on stolen parts

For those of us who are unqualified in mechanics or welding but know our stuff, whats the harm in getting our work checked by the experts? Shy about your workmanship? Im not, frankly I sleep at night knowing I havent screwed up some how.

The Mini is well know as everyones favorite classic the 50th aniversary is only going to make things more visible.
How much long do we think it is before some one decides its time to start checking all the restored cars?
Imagine next year every one lined up for the London to Brighton run and VOSA turn up on mass the check every car there.
Some birthday that will turn out to be for our beloved Mini's.

Apologies for the long winded answer