180 replies to this topic

[taffy1967]

Look if BMW hadn't acquired Rover back in early 1994, there would not have been a new Mini.

Rover were more concerned with keeping the Metro or Rover 100 as it became known a success.

The Mini would have just died gracefully and the Rover 100 would probably have carried on with lots of face-lifts and possibly became the City Rover.

It was the then chairman of BMW, who was a distant relation of Issigonis who was a Mini fan.

It was also known that BMW wanted to enter the small/mid sized market and they were accused by the TV press of buying Rover to get at the Metro/Rover 100 brand.

Which is half true as they wanted a small/mid sized car, but they also wanted the Mini brand name.

But if Rover were building the BINI at Longbridge and it was sold via Rover dealerships, many enthusiasts would still brand it as the new Metro.

[Lukie-J]

Wasn't the city rover a TaTa with a rover badge?

It's good to see people's thoughts on this, something that's kinda been on my mind for a bit!
(is that weird, i think so...)

I'd like to have a drive in a new mini, you think they'd let me have a test drive even though im 18?

[Deathrow]

Wasn't the city rover a TaTa with a rover badge?

It's good to see people's thoughts on this, something that's kinda been on my mind for a bit!
(is that weird, i think so...)

I'd like to have a drive in a new mini, you think they'd let me have a test drive even though im 18?

In the current climate I think they'd let ANYONE who has even a teeny weeny possibility of buying one have a test drive.

[Joloke08]

I Personally think the Bini is a good little car,as a car i have nothing against it i just dont see it as a Mini,rarther something that is Badge Engineered.

Lets face it deep down its a pint sized BMW and BMW,s have allways been quality cars you cant argue with that but there will never be another Mini as in the Guise we all know and Love

They Say nothing is forever and i guess eventually it had to end,the writing was on the wall for the Original Mini if BMW hadnt of done it who knows?

It could of been Consigned to the History Books Forever

Me and Sam were watching the Italian Job remake the other night and started discussing The Bini,all i can say is though id rarther have the Original for Character i wouldnt say no to a Bini for reliability and Comfort Factors

Im not Very Keen on the 07 plate onwards revamp Model though

Theyve now made the Front and Back look a Bit Odd with oversized lights and a New Speedo the size of a Dinnerplate
The Original Bini has Grown on Me Though

Id still rarther Have Boris though

I think what hasnt helped BMW make any friends was the fact they Made Soo much Fuss about well Establised Mini Specialists Using The Mini Brand Name.

Many of which Went out of bussiness in The early Days of The Bini Because of this and im Afraid people have long memories

Huggz
Jodie

[gsms]

Atleast they didn't stick to the first design plans too much

Edited by gsms, 16 December 2008 - 10:47 PM.

[Jack Jones]

got to write this down before i forget it then get annoyed with myself for forgetting it

minis i think could have been made stronger. stronger a and c pillars with a stronger roof and floor could have made a stiffer and safer shell, couldve changed the inner wings but keep standard length front end
they had airbags in the later models, couldve fitted more, nice small one in dash

lets face it, no way can an a series have reached the restirction levels for emissions, but the k series can, we all know people have converted there minis to k series and if k series is well maintained they are very good engines (better after the first headgasket change), inner wings would have needed mods for this, so they could have strengthened them when converting the engine

fuel tank right at the back of the car is a bit of a harder one unless they changed suspension
but that film said they spent over 2mil on producing new mini, they could have sorted the old on for that


in years to come the bini will have people like us clasic mini lovers defending it
but bmw should have stuck with rwd and red the bini then we would be talking classic car straight away

[jonnymm]

personally iam glad that bmw made the new mini iam not a fan of the newer shapes though, anywho i think that the old mini that we all love just isnt practical enough back in the 60s ect even though i wasnt alive cars where generaly smaller i think i just dont think the classic mini could of cut it enough for any car company to make any serious money on it which we all no at the end of the day makes or breaks a brand, so iam glad that they kept the name alive and also iam glad that they made a john cooper mini i think that was the best tribute to the tuning legend.

[mab01uk]

got to write this down before i forget it then get annoyed with myself for forgetting it

minis i think could have been made stronger. stronger a and c pillars with a stronger roof and floor could have made a stiffer and safer shell, couldve changed the inner wings but keep standard length front end
they had airbags in the later models, couldve fitted more, nice small one in dash

lets face it, no way can an a series have reached the restirction levels for emissions, but the k series can, we all know people have converted there minis to k series and if k series is well maintained they are very good engines (better after the first headgasket change), inner wings would have needed mods for this, so they could have strengthened them when converting the engine

fuel tank right at the back of the car is a bit of a harder one unless they changed suspension
but that film said they spent over 2mil on producing new mini, they could have sorted the old on for that


in years to come the bini will have people like us clasic mini lovers defending it
but bmw should have stuck with rwd and red the bini then we would be talking classic car straight away

An upgraded classic Mini was briefly considered around 1994 when the Rover Advanced Vehicle Engineering department under Tony Spillane built 2-off prototypes called Minki One and Minki Two. Minki Two has survived at the Heritage Centre and is stretched 50mm in width + 50mm in length and fitted with a K series engine and end-on 5 speed gearbox with Metro type Hydragas suspension. Minki One had a standard Mini bodyshell with a more radical three cylinder version of the K-Series engine.
However it proved to Rover and BMW they could not offer the required level of crash protection, nor the driving position or refinement demanded by buyers without a much more serious redesign, which had already started at the Rover Design Centre in Gaydon under the control of Rover's Geoff Upex and Dave Saddington with funding by BMW. This resulted in the Spiritual Concept cars favoured by Rover (similar style to Mercedes A-Class) and the more sporting new MINI design favoured by BMW.

The worldwide sales success of the New MINI and the other manufacturers now copying it, tells it's own story, so I guess BMW made Rover engineer the right design for production in the end.............

[Danuneek]

I think there are many similarities and differences between the new and the old mini. They look similar and have that same solid road holding ability, though not quite as good as the classic. Personally, as far as the new mini goes I think its a really nice modern car and if I wanted a modern runner in that price bracket I would get one. There are only two things that niggle me a bit, firstly the fact its owned by the Germans and the mini SHOULD represent everything that is Brittish-but doesn't. And secondly I do wish it was slightly smaller, similar to that of the Fiat 500. But did the new Mini need BMW? sadly and regrettably yes. The British car industry is dead.

Edited by Danuneek, 17 December 2008 - 01:31 AM.

[Disco Dan]

I do not consider the MINI to have any real association to the Mini. No more than when you say 'golf' you think of golf clubs and VW.

Let us not forget Issigonis' original design intentions -

At the end of 1955, Issigonis was recruited back into BMC - this time into the Austin plant at Longbridge - by its chairman Sir Leonard Lord, to design a new model family of three cars. The XC (experimental car) code names assigned for the new cars were XC/9001 - for a large comfortable car, XC/9002 - for a medium-sized family car, and XC/9003 - for a small town car. During 1956 Issigonis concentrated on the larger two cars, producing several prototypes for testing.
However, at the end of 1956, following fuel rationing brought about by the Suez Crisis, Issigonis was ordered by Lord to bring the smaller car, XC/9003, to production as quickly as possible. By early 1957, prototypes were running, and by mid-1957 the project was given an official drawing office project number (ADO15) so that the thousands of drawings required for production could be produced. In August 1959 the car was launched as the Morris Mini Minor and the Austin Mini Seven or just Austin Mini. In later years, the car would become known simply as the Mini. Due to time pressures, the interconnected suspension system that Issigonis had planned for the car was replaced by an equally novel, but cruder, rubber cone system designed by Alex Moulton. The Mini went on to become the best selling British car in history with a production run of 5.3 million cars. This ground-breaking design, with its front wheel drive, transverse engine, sump gearbox, 10-inch wheels, and phenomenal space efficiency, was still being manufactured in 2000 and has been the inspiration for almost all small front-wheel drive cars produced since the early 1960s

Source: http://en.wikipedia..../Alec_Issigonis

The mini was the result of an oil crisis as we all know, now we face another yet are presented with the larger monstrosity that is the BMW MINI.

The whole point of the mini was for it to be simple - only making heaters as extras after pressure from the big wigs!

The BMW MINI is no way simple. Nor is it in any way British. I will never buy one. Nor encourage anyone else to buy one. I drive a British car - they drive a German car. sorry.

Only if the name and the factory had stayed in England would things be different. Any other scenario outside of England would result in me having the same opinion and ultimate outcome for this car.

How many other cars can you push onto two wheels while the other person changes the tire? How many other cars can you fix on the side of the road with a flat head screwdriver and duct tape and get home?

BMC - RIP.

[mab01uk]

The BMW MINI is no way simple. Nor is it in any way British. I will never buy one. Nor encourage anyone else to buy one. I drive a British car - they drive a German car. sorry.

Only if the name and the factory had stayed in England would things be different. Any other scenario outside of England would result in me having the same opinion and ultimate outcome for this car.

I know you live in New Zealand so may not realise but the MINI is actually produced in Oxford, ENGLAND on the same site as the original BMC Morris Mini factory at Cowley, was designed by Rover and creates British jobs and exports.
The car industry is now a global industry, so like it or not, few manufacturers remain under managment from their original country of origin. Only this week it has been announced that Volvo (Swedish) currently owned by Ford is likely to be sold off to a Chinese car company.

You must find it very difficult when choosing any modern car to buy!

[Black.Ghost]

This is certainly an interesting debate.

First off, I would like to say that I like the MINI. A friend of mine has one and it is a good little car. It will never be able to replace the original Mini, and I think everyone knew this when it was designed.

As for not being able to make the old car safe enough, I completely disagree. There was a guy in MiniWorld either late last year or early this year that built a car from scratch, and it has an 07 plate on it. It met both the emissions levels and the safety requirements. The important point is it was really only a mini by shape. However,when you are driving round though, people will just look at it and think thats a Mini. They wont have a clue about the workings of it. It didnt have an A-Series engine which instantly meant the emissions were not a problem etc. In addition, the car did cost him close to 40K IIRC.

Everything has to end at some point. It could be argued that the end of the classic Mini has made it even more desirable, even if it is only as a weekend car for fun.

People's needs etc havent changed much from 2000 until now, and they were still selling the new shape Minis then. I honestly believe that if enough money had been put into the development, it would have been possible to make the classic Mini both safe enough and able to pass an emissions test. It would also have remained popular. If this had happened, and at the same time BMW produced the MINI under a different name, it would still be as successful as it is now.

The only problems I have with the MINI are the Clubman and the SUV version. If they were going to make the Clubman, they should have developed a new front end for it. The MINI has what I would class as a modern interpretation of the classic front end; they should have done that with the Clubman if they insisted on making an estate version.

[Black.Ghost]

The mini was the result of an oil crisis as we all know, now we face another yet are presented with the larger monstrosity that is the BMW MINI.

Have you seen some of the MPG figures for the new Clubmans? While I dont particuarly like the Clubman, some figures suggest the Diesels can do up to 65 MPG (I got this figure from the Motorshow in London this year). I have no idea whether these have been achieved and proven as reguarly obtainable, but I would say that is pretty good...

Atleast they didn't stick to the first design plans too much

Does anyone else quite like this? It looks like a concept car or something....

Edited by TneMini, 17 December 2008 - 11:53 AM.

[mab01uk]

I honestly believe that if enough money had been put into the development, it would have been possible to make the classic Mini both safe enough and able to pass an emissions test. It would also have remained popular. If this had happened, and at the same time BMW produced the MINI under a different name, it would still be as successful as it is now.

Emissions yes, with a new engine........but crash safety I doubt without complete re-engineering beyond recognition, have you noticed the thickness of front windscreen pillars (my MINI even has air bags in them) and the bulbous bonnets on recent designs. Even the 2007 Mk2 New MINI was mainly re-engineered to meet tougher pedestrian safety rules requiring a much higher bonnet line to give a crumple zone for pedestrians head impact above the hard engine components, etc.

Ok you could probably sell a car with 1 or 2 Euro NCAP stars but who would buy it? Thats what killed off the Rover 100/Metro early when Euro Ncap tested it and the bad publicity compared with its rivals instantly killed off sales, which mean't BMW/Rover had to stop production ahead of the planned date, and quickly introduce a cheap basic version of the Rover 200/25 to fill the gap.
Link to NCAP Video:

Edited by mab01uk, 17 December 2008 - 01:41 PM.

[Black.Ghost]

I honestly believe that if enough money had been put into the development, it would have been possible to make the classic Mini both safe enough and able to pass an emissions test. It would also have remained popular. If this had happened, and at the same time BMW produced the MINI under a different name, it would still be as successful as it is now.

Emissions yes, with a new engine........but crash safety I doubt without complete re-engineering beyond recognition, have you noticed the thickness of windscreen pillars and bulbous bonnets on recent designs. Even the 2007 Mk2 New MINI was mainly re-engineered for even tougher pedestrian safety rules requiring a much higher bonnet line to give a crumple zone above the hard engine components, etc.

Ok you could sell a car with one Euro NCAP star but who would buy it? Thats what killed off the Rover 100/Metro early when Euro Ncap tested it and the bad publicity compared with its rivals instantly killed off sales, which mean't BMW/Rover had to stop production ahead of the planned date, and quickly introduce a cheap basic version of the Rover 200/25 to fill the gap.
Link to NCAP Video:

The mini has never been the safets of cars and yet it has always sold. Its a fair point about the pedestrians but they shouldnt get in the way! And there was a guy that managed to get his car through the early 2007 testing, so Im sure that with a bit of research a big company such as BMW could manage it...