180 replies to this topic

[THE ANORAK]

this is a copy of a letter written to Sir Graham Day in feb 1987, the year before issigonis died, i think it clearly lays down his feelings....

[mrslaphead]

http://www.independe...sts-506548.html

This is from the independent which is ironic if nothing else.

(the fact that its from the independent is the ironic bit, not the article)

Edited by mrslaphead, 30 December 2008 - 08:53 PM.

[taffy1967]

For god sake look, there was a recent radio broadcast (a 12 month or so back) about Issigonis and his inventions and being interviewed was Alex Moulton and Lord Snowdon.

Moulton knew how Issigonis thought all too well and he stated on air how he'd hate it that a German company now controlled the Mini, because Issigonis categorically hated the Germans! Plus he'd hate the BINI as it's far too big, doesn't make good use of it's internal space and apart from that it's nothing special.

If you can't see what a revolutionary concept the original Mini was and how it changed the world of motoring forever, then you really shouldn't be posting here.

If all you want to do is drool on about the BINI, then perhaps MINI2.com would be a better place to hang out where you'd find more like minded individuals who are brainwashed by the might that is BMW!

[taffy1967]

http://www.independe...sts-506548.html

This is from the independent which is ironic if nothing else.

(the fact that its from the independent is the ironic bit, not the article)

Well that's just the typical kind of garbage written by any two bit journalist.

BMC were the innovators and it was the problems of the 1970's, what with endless industrial action and lack lustre mid sized cars that really sowed the seeds of doom.

At the 2006 Issigoins Centenary Celebrations at Gaydon, in the main conference hall Alex Moulton was asked (in front of a large seated audience) if it would have been better if BMC hadn't used Issigonis and instead stuck to more conventional vehicle designs like the type that Ford or Vauxhall were producing and if it would have helped prevent the companies future problems and ultimate downfall.

Moulton stated pretty much what I quoted above and commented on how Ford were in dire trouble today anyway and Issigonis and his creations played no part in the companies troubles. Plus at the end of the 1960's the company was in profit.

Edited by taffy1967, 30 December 2008 - 09:12 PM.

[THE ANORAK]

What would the inventor of the Mini, Sir Alec Issigonis, have made of the new model, and in particular the new Mini Cooper S Convertible? The chances are that Sir Alec would have been appalled. He would have thought the retro styling frivolous, as he disdained all styling; he would have hated the poor use of space in the new car - as big as a Maxi outside but not really bigger than his inside; and he would have been apoplectic at the idea that "his" very own creation would be built by a German company.


Despite his family connections (he was a distant relative of the one-time BMW boss Bernd Pischetsrieder) and his Greek origins, Issigonis's affection for England was so pronounced it became a little Germanophobic. When I got into a new Mini Cooper S Convertible I noticed on the windscreen a warning sticker about fitting child seats. It was headed "Achtung!" Issigonis would have exited the car immediately.

ha ha, i just had to quote that, that's bloody brilliant. exactly what we have been saying

[mrslaphead]

What would the inventor of the Mini, Sir Alec Issigonis, have made of the new model, and in particular the new Mini Cooper S Convertible? The chances are that Sir Alec would have been appalled. He would have thought the retro styling frivolous, as he disdained all styling; he would have hated the poor use of space in the new car - as big as a Maxi outside but not really bigger than his inside; and he would have been apoplectic at the idea that "his" very own creation would be built by a German company.


Despite his family connections (he was a distant relative of the one-time BMW boss Bernd Pischetsrieder) and his Greek origins, Issigonis's affection for England was so pronounced it became a little Germanophobic. When I got into a new Mini Cooper S Convertible I noticed on the windscreen a warning sticker about fitting child seats. It was headed "Achtung!" Issigonis would have exited the car immediately.

ha ha, i just had to quote that, that's bloody brilliant. exactly what we have been saying

I did chuckle when I read that.
The bit about the styling being frivolous and disdaining all styling has been widely reported
(and just so it doesnt come across as bashing Binis) would indicate he probably wouldnt have approved of the
late model classic minis with sportspack arches.

[The_Mistro]

What would the inventor of the Mini, Sir Alec Issigonis, have made of the new model, and in particular the new Mini Cooper S Convertible? The chances are that Sir Alec would have been appalled. He would have thought the retro styling frivolous, as he disdained all styling; he would have hated the poor use of space in the new car - as big as a Maxi outside but not really bigger than his inside; and he would have been apoplectic at the idea that "his" very own creation would be built by a German company.


Despite his family connections (he was a distant relative of the one-time BMW boss Bernd Pischetsrieder) and his Greek origins, Issigonis's affection for England was so pronounced it became a little Germanophobic. When I got into a new Mini Cooper S Convertible I noticed on the windscreen a warning sticker about fitting child seats. It was headed "Achtung!" Issigonis would have exited the car immediately.

ha ha, i just had to quote that, that's bloody brilliant. exactly what we have been saying

I did chuckle when I read that.
The bit about the styling being frivolous and disdaining all styling has been widely reported
(and just so it doesnt come across as bashing Binis) would indicate he probably wouldnt have approved of the
late model classic minis with sportspack arches.

he would not of approved of anything with an SPI or MPI engine!

[taffy1967]

But it would have tickled him pink that his little creation lasted for over 41 years in full production.

Much like it did when it won the Monte 4 times, outright!

[THE ANORAK]

Both authors come to much the same sort of conclusions about Issigonis's career. In a nutshell it is this: the Mini concept that "Issy" created for his beloved British Motor Corporation (BMC) in 1959 was technically brilliant, as was the 1100 and even the ungainly 1800 that followed them. The problem was that the cars were expensive to make, had too many niggling faults that led to costly warranty claims and made little, if any, profit.

well that's not the impression the books gave me. issigonis' failure was not in his designs but in the way the company was run. at the end of the 60's issigonis was in the position of BMC's technical director. i position he was not suited for.

issigonis was at his best in the workshop, not in an office, if BMC had left him there, things may have been different. I'm not saying issigonis didnt contribute to the problems, but it wasn't ALL his fault.

[THE ANORAK]

What would the inventor of the Mini, Sir Alec Issigonis, have made of the new model, and in particular the new Mini Cooper S Convertible? The chances are that Sir Alec would have been appalled. He would have thought the retro styling frivolous, as he disdained all styling; he would have hated the poor use of space in the new car - as big as a Maxi outside but not really bigger than his inside; and he would have been apoplectic at the idea that "his" very own creation would be built by a German company.


Despite his family connections (he was a distant relative of the one-time BMW boss Bernd Pischetsrieder) and his Greek origins, Issigonis's affection for England was so pronounced it became a little Germanophobic. When I got into a new Mini Cooper S Convertible I noticed on the windscreen a warning sticker about fitting child seats. It was headed "Achtung!" Issigonis would have exited the car immediately.

ha ha, i just had to quote that, that's bloody brilliant. exactly what we have been saying

I did chuckle when I read that.
The bit about the styling being frivolous and disdaining all styling has been widely reported
(and just so it doesnt come across as bashing Binis) would indicate he probably wouldnt have approved of the
late model classic minis with sportspack arches.

he would not of approved of anything with an SPI or MPI engine!

absolutely agree. 100%

[mrslaphead]

Anyway the whole would he wouldnt he question isnt the subject of the thread.
Would Rover have been as succesful if they had launched a new mini ?
Even the strongest supporter of all things classic would have to admit that they wouldnt have done as well as BMW

[THE ANORAK]

would they have even got it into production ???? without the help of BMW. surely they would have gone under first ???? too little too late maybe ???

[The_Mistro]

if it was sold as a "rover mini" i dont think it would of done that well, but if it was sold, as BMW have as a standalone company, it might have done quite well! but thats what me thinks!

[taffy1967]

Both authors come to much the same sort of conclusions about Issigonis's career. In a nutshell it is this: the Mini concept that "Issy" created for his beloved British Motor Corporation (BMC) in 1959 was technically brilliant, as was the 1100 and even the ungainly 1800 that followed them. The problem was that the cars were expensive to make, had too many niggling faults that led to costly warranty claims and made little, if any, profit.

But the company was in profit at the end of the 1960's!

It was the 1970's rubbish years that caused things to go terribly wrong!

[taffy1967]

if it was sold as a "rover mini" i dont think it would of done that well, but if it was sold, as BMW have as a standalone company, it might have done quite well! but thats what me thinks!

It still would have been seen as a replacement Metro though and not a proper Mini.