577 replies to this topic

[joe_m]

I vote the ride is open to anyone!

mtb's,road bikes, the works!

the only regulation is you need to wair a helmet?

sound fair?

+the ride will be suited to road bikes, so the other partisipants will have to deal with that if they dont like the idea, they can sort there own ride out for what suits them and other tmf members

Joe

[Mark@IR]

you see, this is the kind of thing i was getting at a while back. so your saying that these "seemingly" expensive upgrades on things like cables are actually worth it ????

after experiencing my cheap spec shifters, i can appreciate that spending that little bit more on components is worth while but I'm wondering if the benefits are just as large at the upper end of the price range, i mean is the difference between a £1000 bike and a £1500 bike as noticeable as the difference between a £99 halfords special and a £500 proper starter bike ????.

Okies, this lot is going to be quite a mission and can't really be answered in one lot! I'll just go through little bits and put my feel across best i can. Firstly, things like gear/brake cables, brake pads and chains make a huge difference in my opinion. These are vital things in making your bike run properly! Chains on a bike are a bit like a cambelt in a car, once it stretches to far, instead of just being able to replace the (£15 for a budget) chain you'll have to replace all the transmission cause its completely worn out. If your not replacing your cables and they start to get rough, or the outers are starting to pull through then this creates a bad shift and sometimes and unsteady transmission (lots of slipping up and down a gear). This can truely ruin your ride.

Likewise, you can buy tyres for £9, and you can buy tyres for £40. At the end of the day, i'll always buy high end top quality tyres, after all grip is whats seperating you and a face full of mud/tarmac! Yea, ok so a cheap tyre will hold up ok on the road, but put a cheap tyre into XC use and you will be all over the place! Beginner riders don't notice this so much due to the fact that they don't have as much control over there bike as they think, and so, as slip sliding all over the place. Beginner riders also find this slipping and sliding everywhere to be alot of fun, so they really don't think twice about it.

Looking at something simple like grips on your MTB, normal slide on ones will be say £8 and proper lock ons will be £18, i will choose the lock ons hands down any day of the week. When your in proper nasty conditions the last thing you want to think about is your grips slipping round up and down and falling down the bars. Again, beginners wont really take much notice to this and just think 'ahh its just a fact of life' but as you ride more you really will appreciate the bonus of having lock ons.

at what point does the increase in money stop paying out in performance if/when the rider is maybe a little over weight and not exactly up to "tour de france" standard of riding.

My personal view on this is it doesn't. I also think that people can get really obssesed with the bike and forget about themselves. For example, if you have this £800 bike and think it feels awesome, instead of spending £80 on just changing the rear mech that in your mind already shifts just fine, how about spending the money on some proper good performance clothing? There is alot on the market and its there for a reason! Things like energy drinks/gels/bars.. All needed!

as someone who wants to up-grade as my performance increases, i would be interested to hear opinions from people that are using the upper range stuff.

I can put my hand up and say i use top end gear, whatever form it may be. I feel there is no easy way to answer that question unless you can put something behind it. For example 'i need to replace xxxxxxx and im using xxxxx what would you recomend for £££?'

also, on the subject of the TMF ride... is it meant to be a bit of fun or something a little more ??? the reason i ask... the bike weight limit issue and the helmet or no helmet thing is kind of baffling me a bit ??? i mean, what difference would it make if i turned up on a fold-able shopping bike ??? its only me that's going to suffer .

the lap idea sounds good though

I was trying to see if there are any rules, purely because i wont be turning up on a winter hack bike if i've got 100 miles infront of me. Fair enough you could have a smash at 100 miles on whatever bike you like, but then thats purely up to you. I was thinking about the other people when i said about a weight limit, purely because if i turn up on a sub 8kg top end road bike and everyone else is on 15kg mtb's then you're all going to have something to say about it!

I vote the ride is open to anyone!
mtb's,road bikes, the works!
the only regulation is you need to wair a helmet?
sound fair?
+the ride will be suited to road bikes, so the other partisipants will have to deal with that if they dont like the idea, they can sort there own ride out for what suits them and other tmf members
Joe

Yea, for sure just what i was saying just up a touch, you can ride what you like, but are you going to be annoyed if someone else is on something much better? Its kinda like that thing in schools, you all use school uniform so people who don't have alot of money and top end clothes don't get taken the yoohooo out of by the richer people.

Only reason i say about the helmet, is because it just makes so much sense! We're not going to have the roads locked off for us so safety is high on my priority list. Fair enough if you don't wear a helmet in your own time, but if we're all together riding helmets it not only promotes a good impression to others but at the end of the day you just look like a cyclist!

Anyways, i've blabbered on so thats enough from me!

Again, all this is my personal take on the situation and my bikes!

[alicetheauto]

I completely agree with the post above. Buying cheap kit (especially chains, tyres, gearing, wheels etc) is a false economy. I should know, I SELL predominantly cheap kit for a living..... In my opinion, for many uses though you do find that one down from the top is better for long-term durability than the very top llevel equipment. I have Shimano Ultegra gearing throughout my daily use and road race bike, as I have slightly more confidence in it. I had the option to upgrade it to dura-ace, the very top level, but didnt as I have seen them fail through wear in as little as 2000miles. My current Ultegra has done 6000+ and is still very good.
With regards to wearing a helmet, I think that it is a CRUCIAL piece of equipment for any ride. I will never ride ANYWHERE without a helmet, even to the cornershop. I have used my helmet once, when I got hit by a car. I was on my lunchbreak from work, in Sainsburys carpark. 1 mile or 100, ALWAYS wear a hat! I reccomend you go to a bike shop or Halfords and try a few on. Never buy one on recommendation, unless you have tried it, as they are all different shapes and fits. I find MET are the best shape for me, but lots of people prefer Giro or Bell. All are good brands though. Also, dont spend less than 30-35quid, there is a REASON they are more expensive!!!

[THE ANORAK]

good answers, thank you guys

[AndrewJ530]

I agree 100% with what you guys have written. I can't comment on bikes because i've only just got into it so my views on diffferent gear is pretty weak. However buying top end stuff for anything i think is a neccesity if you want to keep it in good nick.

I play guitar so i know what it's like to play guitar with cheap strings and an awful fretboard. It's not good. Therefore i will only buy ernie ball slinky strings.

Rant over lol.

[THE ANORAK]

OK, so the general opinion is to buy the best you can afford this seems more than reasonable but at the same time i would hate to think that someone would be frowned upon for having cheap kit. surly the fact that their out on a bike is the main thing ?? I've picked up a few bike mags over the years and i have to say I'm a little bit put off by their attitude to lower spec gear. i realise they have a target audience to cater for but ... well lets just say, i have little time for bike snobs the school uniform example is a very good comparison and well i have to say, if that kind of thing really happens in the world of cycling, I'm a bit upset at that. i look at it in the same way i look at minis, yes a top spec car is nice, but even the oldest, slowest mini is still a mini and worthy of praise.

also the most expensive bike in the world is not going to win you any races if your not up to the pace.

you are really making me think long and hard about the helmet thing. I'm not trying to be macho, its just in my opinion they really look awful, but then I'm going to look awful lying in a hospital bed with my head caved in. I'm wondering if they would be annoying as well ?? are they really worth the hassle for that one time that i might need it ???. i guess I'll go try some on, see if i can find a "good fit". maybe wearing one in the winter months would be a good idea at least.

funny thing is, i would NEVER ride a bike without gloves on.

oh and one other thing... back to the handle bar grips slipping on the bars. has no one ever heard of using hairspray when fitting them? it's slippery when wet and drys like glue. i have always used it and never have trouble with grips slipping, in fact its hard work getting them off afterwards (bit of WD40 helps )

[alicetheauto]

With the hairspray thing, I have heard it works well too. But, its not much good on roadbikes with dro bars One of my WORST jobs on bikes is wrapping new bar tape onto a new set of bars. Mess it up and it all peels off or looks stupid!
I seriously would try a couple of BRANDED helmets on. If you are riding on road then a roadie helmet is often slimmer and lighter-weight so you wont even notice it. Met helmets are very good for that. In road biking, I have not found anything like as much bike snobbery as you get in mountain biking. If it is all you can afford and is suitable for your level of experience then it is perfect for you! Nothing worse than a guy on a £4,5k full suss mountainbike, with NO skills at all!

[Mark@IR]

I agree 100% with what you guys have written. I can't comment on bikes because i've only just got into it so my views on diffferent gear is pretty weak. However buying top end stuff for anything i think is a neccesity if you want to keep it in good nick.

Here i go again going to rattle off another essay i recon! haha!

Personally if your buying top end gear to keep it in good nick i think your buying it for the wrong reason, maintence on your gear is very important, starting at the very basics of properly cleaning and degreasing the components! Very simple mechanical 'tweaks' and adjustments can make all the difference to your life of riding, wether its road or MTB. MTB requires more cleaning maintence due to the pounding they receieve.

The higher up the gear, the more you need to concintrate on keeping the gear tip top, not only for the money you loose in not maintaining it properly, but the percentages that top end gear works at. For example, lets just say you have 7 gears at the back, the gear shift could be 30% off and still work, running 10 speed at the back it could be only 5% before the gear shift starts to get messy.

OK, so the general opinion is to buy the best you can afford this seems more than reasonable but at the same time i would hate to think that someone would be frowned upon for having cheap kit.

Buying the best you can afford is a good idea, just to help you not buy the same cheaper thing twice, which will turn out to be more expensive in the long run. I don't really feel people on cheaper bikes are frowned upon as such, its more of a case of the people who buy £300 bikes and treat them real bad and then go back to the bike shop saying "this is not fit for the purpose blah blah blah!" Seriously, if your going to rag your bike, buy a better one!

surly the fact that their out on a bike is the main thing ??

For sure, but be open to the idea's that the guys running the top end gear can give you.. When i was younger i always wore jeans when i was out riding, thinking the guys in biblongs and the such were 'jay boys' and stupid.. Now my knowledge has grown you just wont see me out riding in jeans full stop! Why have a good bike and your clothing and accessories let you down?

I've picked up a few bike mags over the years and i have to say I'm a little bit put off by their attitude to lower spec gear. i realise they have a target audience to cater for but ... well lets just say, i have little time for bike snobs

This is true, people like MBUK are quite top end based, but people liek cycling plus and the such really goes down to the basics and tests £300 items aswell as £3000 bikes. The bike snob thing is a shame its come about, the people who run XTR/Dura Ace say to people running Deore/105 "i'd never use that crap", thats just demeaning! If im out riding and see someone in need of some help with there bike, i'll help. Wether its a £100 or a £1000 bike. Generally though you will find more £100 bikes broke on the rides then the £1000 people. This isn't just cause the gear is better though i feel, i think its down to the people running the higher gear have a better understanding on how it works and keep them in better working condition.

the school uniform example is a very good comparison and well i have to say, if that kind of thing really happens in the world of cycling, I'm a bit upset at that. i look at it in the same way i look at minis, yes a top spec car is nice, but even the oldest, slowest mini is still a mini and worthy of praise.

Yea, i bought up the school uniform thing purely just to make sure no one had a problem with the guys running the higher end gear.

also the most expensive bike in the world is not going to win you any races if your not up to the pace.

This is true, but alot of it is your mental state aswell, if you know your on something better your more in a mental condition to fight on till the end! Ok, not so important on our little ride but in competitive stages it makes the difference between winning and loosing. That said, yes you need the right level of fitness, but if your with 30 other riders who are just as fit as you are, its the mental fight to keep it going that will keep you winning!

you are really making me think long and hard about the helmet thing. I'm not trying to be macho, its just in my opinion they really look awful, but then I'm going to look awful lying in a hospital bed with my head caved in. I'm wondering if they would be annoying as well ?? are they really worth the hassle for that one time that i might need it ???. i guess I'll go try some on, see if i can find a "good fit". maybe wearing one in the winter months would be a good idea at least.

funny thing is, i would NEVER ride a bike without gloves on.

Thing is, for the TMF ride, if there are 40 of us that turn up, and your the only one not wearing a helmet, who's going to look stupid? The other thing is taking other peoples personal feelings into consideration during this ride, imagine we all turn up to this big even and you do have a crash, the devistation that would cause for the other 39 people for even letting you start riding with us without a helmet in the first place. Doesn't matter if you get a proper road helmet or a road helmet.. I tend to ride my road bike in a mtb helmet quite often, just cause i feel more comfortable in it.

oh and one other thing... back to the handle bar grips slipping on the bars. has no one ever heard of using hairspray when fitting them? it's slippery when wet and drys like glue. i have always used it and never have trouble with grips slipping, in fact its hard work getting them off afterwards (bit of WD40 helps )

When your out riding in terrential rain, you drop your bike into wet sloppy mud and then keep riding on and your grips stay where they are.. Your a lucky chap! Maybe im just unlucky but slipping grips is, well was, a big issue for me.

With the hairspray thing, I have heard it works well too. But, its not much good on roadbikes with dro bars One of my WORST jobs on bikes is wrapping new bar tape onto a new set of bars. Mess it up and it all peels off or looks stupid!
I seriously would try a couple of BRANDED helmets on. If you are riding on road then a roadie helmet is often slimmer and lighter-weight so you wont even notice it. Met helmets are very good for that. In road biking, I have not found anything like as much bike snobbery as you get in mountain biking. If it is all you can afford and is suitable for your level of experience then it is perfect for you! Nothing worse than a guy on a £4,5k full suss mountainbike, with NO skills at all!

Yea, i find road bike tape works fine with the glue it has, aslong as your wrapping it properly there are no issues. Not pointing a finger at you so sorry if it sounds like it is, but i have spoke to a fair few people who thinks that the tape you put on at the end is to hold the grips, but its how its wrapped that does it. Beginners also use that silly seperate peice behind the hood, your not supposed to use that, you double up and figure of 8 round the hood kind of thing, its a real art but VERY satisfying when you get it done right. I must make a little vid one day of my friend wrapping his bar, first time and absolutely perfect, its quite a sad thing to think about but very inspiring at the same time.

4.5k bike and no skills, we call those the 'all the gear and no idea' type people, still though, wether its top end or low end, at least they're having a go! Yea sure i feel sorry for the people REALLY into it and can't afford the top end bikes, but the people who do have the top end bikes work bloody hard to buy them, and just cause they have a 4k bike doesn't mean they're loaded. I'd say out of 100 people who has 2k bike, i'd say at least 6 of them were on less then £8 per hour.

Edited by Mark@LCS, 16 January 2009 - 09:41 PM.

[alicetheauto]

A picture of my new rig, still on original wheels though (cant find any carbon I can afford right now).

Edited by alicetheauto, 16 January 2009 - 10:31 PM.

[THE ANORAK]

well the hairspray tip is not meant for "bar tape" and no, i don't and wont be riding in the rain and mud

i understand about the maintenance side of things and the part about being in the right frame of mind rings true. i have proven in the past that my hybrid can be just as quick as my road bike (apart from top speed) but i don't "feel" as good on it and therefore don't enjoy the ride so much. also i have found the fear of a hill can actually have a big effect on your ability to get to the top. once you learn to "love" the hill it "seems" much easier to ride.

so we want to buy the best we can afford, without compromising our expectations. at the moment I'm very happy with my bike but its my performance that needs the work. i can see a point when this may be reversed.

interesting stuff, cheers

[AndrewJ530]

Just fitted that computer from halfords and it's too big . The magnet kept hitting the sensor on the forks. Gunna wait and see which one my mate has and probably get that one.

Andrew

[THE ANORAK]

Just fitted that computer from halfords and it's too big . The magnet kept hitting the sensor on the forks. Gunna wait and see which one my mate has and probably get that one.

Andrew

are you trying to mount the sensor directly down the inside "centre" line of the fork ??? if so, thats is what will happen. try rotating the sensor around the fork leg, either forwards or rearwards, this should give you the clearance you need.

i have taken some pics of mine, as you can see its mounted to the rear of the leg...





imagine this is the veiw from above, the red bits are the fork legs and the grey is the wheel....

[AndrewJ530]

Does that not give a wrong reading? Thought it might affect the calculations if it's at the wrong angle?

[THE ANORAK]

no, i don't think so. all it needs is a "pulse" from the magnet once per revolution.... i think.

mark@LCS will tell us

[AndrewJ530]

Come on mark, where are you?